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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 08/08/2012 : 08:45:46
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at TAM this year. There is nothing here that I disagree with and haven't thought about already. To me it goes a long way in explaining why the conflating skepticism with other things is a detriment to our mission. It's also a bit of a pep talk. Something we sometimes need.
Jamy Ian Swiss - "Overlapping Magisteria" - TAM 2012
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 10:29:11 [Permalink]
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I enjoyed that. Swiss gave a rabble-rousing speech. I like and agree with the idea he expressed that scientific skepticism is perhaps the central and unifying component of the several related and usually allied "magisteria" of skepticism, atheism, and humanism. It's the primary "home-base" (I feel) that we all should regularly return to for intellectual focus, for grounding in reality and bullshit-checking, and for community, no matter how far away we roam to pursue less related passions. It has at least a partial code of morality, in seeing liars an cheats as enemies of humanity and reason. (That is the one idea Swiss gave out that I'd not ever conciously considered.)
(One thing I especially like about SFN is that I think most people here already are on board with most of what Swiss said, even more so that in some related fora.)
Thanks for the link, Kil!
What was the other of your "two favorite talks"? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/08/2012 10:49:47 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 15:49:09 [Permalink]
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Pamala Gay's talk was the other one. Though there were many other talks that were right up there. Gay's talk was nothing like Swiss's talk.
Here is the text version of her talk. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2012 : 17:41:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I don't think Swiss' talk is in PZ Myers' top ten, even.
I haven't watched it myself, yet. I've seen good and bad reactions to it.
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PZ:
But the first half of this talk is scattered with sniping at atheists, and smug back-patting about how superior skeptics are to atheists. |
No it's not. He is talking about the scope of scientific skepticism and why it's important as a jumping off place to inform atheism. There has been some disagreement about scope and that's what Swiss is addressing. Swiss included as critical thinkers and scientific skeptics many new atheists in that camp, including Dawkins and Dennet and Hitchens. He has nothing at all against what they are (or were, in the case of Hitchens) doing. But yes, he is talking about scope and what is this and what is that. Myers gets a lot of milage out of his strawman version of the talk.
By bringing in quotes by Drescher, and Loxton, Myers reaction is not surprising. Too bad. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2012 : 19:20:21 [Permalink]
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In fact, reading the comments, I don't get it. The way Myers presented what Swiss was saying makes it sound like he was throwing atheism under the bus. He wasn't. He was reaffirming the scope of skepticism, in which includes this phrase; "There are no sacred cows." He never once said that religion isn't fair game. As for evidence, I have made the same argument Swiss makes about woo's having evidence. Anecdotal evidence that we don't consider good evidence. And then we attempt to show them why it isn't good evidence. So on and so on.
Myers:
It could have been a great talk. Ultimately, it just reaffirmed my regret that “skepticism” has become a label for the timid almost-skeptical, who like to reassure each other that they’re all truly the very best critical thinkers, now let the believers among us close their eyes and pray.
Give me a good hardcore New Atheist any day. Those are my people. They’re skeptical about everything, and don’t make special allowances for the benighted believers. |
New atheists have their place in the skeptical movement. Swiss made that clear. The above statement just makes me sad. I think it's Myers who doesn't get it. And I think it's willful.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2012 : 23:38:21 [Permalink]
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| I agree, Swiss was careful to include Gnu Atheists in the skeptical community. PZ got it wrong. But "willfully" wrong? That's not required. I just think he's primed to see accommodationism even where it doesn't exist. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
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One of my two favorite talks
