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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend
75 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2012 : 13:15:26
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Hello all,
Recently,I've been at one forum discussinig the mind/body problem and "hard problem of conciousness".Well,there one one person who claimed that existence of "mirror matter" is the most likely resolution for mind/body problem. But he used the quotation about "mirror photons" proposed by Bob Holdom,here:
"According to Bob Holdom, of the University of Toronto, says that photons and mirror photons, (along with other particles and their mirror counterparts) can change into each other through the exchange of a "Holdom force" particle, or H particle. Mirror photons, in theory, can interact with regular photons. However, the mirror photon can not interact with any charged particle, it can only interact with its neutral counterpart, the regular photon."Following that, he concluded that Holdom's solutioin presupposes the existence of "subtle body".But is it logical conclusion?
Any thoughts?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 17:33:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Alexander1304
But is it logical conclusion? |
No, it sounds like they're just making up a bunch of stuff. "Can any of it be tested?" is the question that needs to be asked, not whether it's logical. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 17:43:49 [Permalink]
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Is this just like the 'Mirror Matter' and the question of 'soul' thread from earlier this year?
Anyhow, just because the conclusion is logical (i.e. it follows from the premises[and I don't know if it is]), it doesn't follow that the conclusion says anything about the real world. Anyone can make up some crap premises and arrive at any conclusion wanted. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend
75 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 19:15:35 [Permalink]
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Thanks,guys.Yes,Hawks it is continuation of the "Mirro Matter and question of soul" thread.Anyway,in previous thread it was on the premise that biological organisms make a copies into the "mirror matter" of themselves.Now,in Holdom particle it seems something different. It is postulated that through that particle ordinary particles can change them into mirror ones,and mirror ones into the ordinary ones.It seems completely another story altogether.Also,who can say that mirror particles are by themselves "immortal" and free of the second law of thermodymanics?
Here is the detailed review of mirror matter and Holdom particle in particular.The article is of 2003 and I was surprised why after all these experiments mirror matter is considered to be "hypothetical"?:
"The carrier of the Holdom force, or 'H particle' would be very weak because otherwise its effects would have been measured. Mirror particles and ordinary particles would be able to change into each other via use of an H particle. But what is the evidence for this ever occurring?
Such evidence has been found at the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO) in Canada. Neutrinos are elementary particles that exist in three types called 'flavours': muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos and electron neutrinos. Studies at the SNO seem to suggest the validity of 'neutrino oscillations' where neutrinos can change their flavour. To test this, beams of neutrinos produced in particle accelerators are monitored to see if other flavours are present in the beam, showing that the neutrinos have oscillated. In 1996, a beam purely of muon neutrinos was monitored, and twenty-two electron neutrinos were found in it.
Furthermore, evidence was found that the number of muon neutrinos in cosmic-ray interactions in the atmosphere is not enough, suggesting that they are oscillating into other flavours. Foot believes that they could be oscillating into their mirror counterparts. To do this, an ordinary particle may 'spit' out an H particle to become a mirror particle, while mirror particles gain H particles to become ordinary matter."
I think I overlooked something here.This experiment only showed that neutrinos oscillates between their flavours,not nescesseraly saying anything about mirror matter.And as it stands now,interaction through Holdom particle remains hypothetical...
After I've read on forum that one person used his particle to presuppose subtle body,I contacted Holdom by phone(both of us live in Toronto).Ironically, he himself didn't endorse the view that interactioin through his particle presupposes "subtle body".He even told me: "Well,may be there are not any mirror particles" meaning that for himself all this stuff remains theoretical....
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 20:06:16 [Permalink]
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With regards to your neutrino citation, we already know every fermion exists in 3 generations, this just shows they can oscillate. Since fermions already have 3 known generations there's no need for a hypothetical mirror counterpart to any of these. They exist, we can detect them and they have names.
Citing this as some kind of evidence for mirror particles of photons is kind of pointless. Photons are bosons, so not related to neutrinos, and bosons don't have or need any generations. A gluon works on any flavour of quark etc. There's no need for a 3rd generation gluon. A photon will be released or absorbed by an Electron, Muon or Tau if they change energy level. No need for a 2nd or 3rd gen photon.
Your neutrino example really is not relevant. |
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| Edited by - On fire for Christ on 08/20/2012 20:19:31 |
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Does Bob Holdom particle suggest existence of "sub
