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Grockel
New Member
5 Posts |
 Posted - 02/25/2013 : 08:32:28
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The purpose of prison is to reform criminals, however this is not always possible. Many criminals repeatedly break the law and are undeterred by the prospect of punishment. There are several factors believed to contribute to criminal behavior, one important factor being high testosterone levels. It has been proven that testosterone is linked to aggression, in 1990 James Dabbs studied 4,462 men and concluded that "the overall picture among the high-testosterone men is one of delinquency, substance abuse and a tendency toward excess." Even in women, Dabbs found high testosterone levels were related to crimes of unprovoked violence. Statistically men commit significantly more crimes than women, specifically violent crimes.
We know that castration can drastically alter an animals behavior, most notably by reducing sex drive and aggression. Not all aggression is caused by testosterone, however the University of California found that in 60% of dogs aggression could be treated with castration. Castration also causes sterility which, considering the inability of prisoners to raise their children, may be an added bonus.
Violent criminals destroy their lives and the lives of others, is society not morally obliged to save them from themselves via castration?
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2013 : 11:00:16 [Permalink]
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| The purpose of prison is to lock up poor people, mostly minorities. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2013 : 11:00:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Grockel
The purpose of prison is to reform criminals, however this is not always possible. Many criminals repeatedly break the law and are undeterred by the prospect of punishment. There are several factors believed to contribute to criminal behavior, one important factor being high testosterone levels. It has been proven that testosterone is linked to aggression, in 1990 James Dabbs studied 4,462 men and concluded that "the overall picture among the high-testosterone men is one of delinquency, substance abuse and a tendency toward excess." Even in women, Dabbs found high testosterone levels were related to crimes of unprovoked violence. Statistically men commit significantly more crimes than women, specifically violent crimes.
We know that castration can drastically alter an animals behavior, most notably by reducing sex drive and aggression. Not all aggression is caused by testosterone, however the University of California found that in 60% of dogs aggression could be treated with castration. Castration also causes sterility which, considering the inability of prisoners to raise their children, may be an added bonus.
Violent criminals destroy their lives and the lives of others, is society not morally obliged to save them from themselves via castration?
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No.
Just no.
Other people have high testoterone and they don't commit violent crimes.
I might consider it for rapists, but not violent crime in general. Although castration in those cases would be more of a punative punishment instead of a moral one. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2013 : 12:06:57 [Permalink]
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Grockel:
The purpose of prison is to reform criminals... |
That might be the purpose in some countries, but not here. The purpose in America is to separate criminals from the general population. Very little in the way of reform goes on. But some does. It has been shown that earning a GED in prison reduces recidivism. The rate of recidivism drops even more with some college education in prison. Probably job programs help too.
Paper presented at the Conference: Incarceration Nation: The Warehousing of America’s Poor, October 24, 2003, Ivy Tech State College, South Bend, Indiana.
In any case, we need to reform some laws. There are way too many people in prison who shouldn't be there. And as Gorgo intimated, the system is weighted heavily against the poor and minorities. Three strikes and drug laws, along with some crimes that don't earn prison sentences in some their countries, combined with the length of the sentences makes America rather special.
This article might be worth looking at:
U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations
Also there is this:
Strange but True: Testosterone Alone Does Not Cause Violence
One psychologist, James Dabbs of Georgia State University in Atlanta, made a career out of conducting studies connecting testosterone to every kind of lifestyle imaginable. In his book Heroes, Rogues and Lovers, he noted that athletes, actors, blue-collar workers and con men tend to have higher levels of testosterone than clerks, intellectuals and administrators.
What Dabbs didn't address was whether this correlation was the cause or an effect of the environment these men found themselves in. Which is to say, are high-testosterone males more likely to become violent criminals, or does being a violent criminal raise a man's level of testosterone?
No one really knows the answer, but a growing body of evidence suggests that testosterone is as much the result of violence as its cause. Indeed, both winning a sporting match and beating an opponent at chess can boost testosterone levels. (On the other hand, losing a sporting match, growing old and becoming obese all reduce levels of testosterone.) |
There is also this debate from CSUN:
Is chemical castration an acceptable punishment for male sex offenders?m: Yes
Is chemical castration an acceptable punishment for male sex offenders?m: No
They focus on sexual offenders.
There is no doubt that hormone levels can significantly effect behaviour. But is it a cause or an effect? Firemen also have high testosterone levels. If we go by that alone, we would lose some of the people we need, willing to do important tasks that need doing. And then there is the old correlation = causation problem.
Maybe if our prisons were actually geard more toward rehabilitation, and we got rid of some incredibly stupid laws, we wouldn't even be having this conversation? And it's my opinion that even if a program were instituted it would have to be voluntary, or I would consider it cruel and unusual punishment.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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JasonRain
Spammer
Cayman Islands
3 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2013 : 02:02:13 [Permalink]
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The purpose of prison is to lock up poor people, mostly minorities.
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Removed links
Kil |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2013 : 06:35:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JasonRain
The purpose of prison is to lock up poor people, mostly minorities.
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<spam links deleted>
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Jason, I'm a bit concerned about why you are here.
So far, you have criticised without detail one poster. Whether the rest of us believe his sources are useless is immaterial. He is engaging in a reasoned debate.
This is just an echo of Gorgo's post. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2013 : 07:51:18 [Permalink]
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| So why is it when replying to JasonRain's posts the signature line is included? Is it because they're added to the post manually? I always resist Spammers links, why reward bad behavior with thoughtless actions? |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2013 : 19:23:32 [Permalink]
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| Maybe repeat sex offenders should be castrated. Both as a punishment and a preventative measure. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2013 : 20:43:41 [Permalink]
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| Never mind...my post that was originally here was probably a bit snarky....carry on. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 03/07/2013 20:46:38 |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 00:45:49 [Permalink]
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| You should stick to your guns |
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energyscholar
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 13:35:45 [Permalink]
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I'd like to point out that our spammer, 'Jason Rain', is using a screen scraping script that finds and copies the first reply to each thread as it's 'original' content. The creature (I hesitate to apply the word 'human' to a professional spammer) who runs the script is not reading our discussion groups. It seems to be 100% automated spam.
Kil, thank you for deleting the links. I suggest you also delete EVERYTHING from this spammer, and do what you can to block future posts. I understand this is annoying administrivia, and I thank you for your efforts. |
"It is Easier to get Forgiveness than Permission" - Rear Admiral Grace Hopper |
| Edited by - energyscholar on 03/08/2013 23:57:45 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 06:33:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by energyscholar
I'd like to point out that our spammer, 'Jason Rain', is using a screen scraping script that finds and copies the first reply to each thread as it's 'original' content.
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I think it more likely that it's just the nature of the internet to replicate that which is incredibly smart. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 07:27:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
You should stick to your guns
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You do not want to know what I said.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 08:27:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by energyscholar
I'd like to point out that our spammer, 'Jason Rain', is using a screen scraping script that finds and copies the first reply to each thread as it's 'original' content. The creature (I hesitate to apply the word 'human' to a professional spammer) who runs the script is not reading our discussion groups. It seems to be 100% automated spam.
Kil, thank you for deleting the links. I suggest you also delete EVERYTHING from this spammer, and do what you can to block future posts. I understand this is annoying administrivia, and I thank you for your efforts.
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I have banned that account from posting and I have marked him as a spammer. I could delete his posts, but that wouldn't serve as much of a warning to other spammers. I usually like to keep one post around. Had I thought of it, I probably would have deleted two out of the three posts. But oh well... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 00:37:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
You should stick to your guns
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You do not want to know what I said.
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Whatever it is, I've read worse. I can probably make a pretty good guess what it was anyway. |
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| Edited by - On fire for Christ on 03/10/2013 00:38:54 |
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Should violent criminals be castrated?
