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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2015 : 10:56:48
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Adam Lee: I’ll Say It Again: Richard Dawkins Doesn’t Speak For Me:...Regardless of what I think about [Richard Dawkins], he is treated as if he’s the president of the atheist movement. Not only are his views assumed to be ours, his constant blunders distract attention from the valid and important points we have to make. That’s why it’s still important, when he makes these boneheaded proclamations, for atheists to emphasize that atheism is far more than just Richard Dawkins. He doesn’t speak for all of us, he doesn’t represent us, and more than a few of us consider him an embarrassment. For all of his alleged expertise at communicating science, Richard Dawkins needs to learn how to communicate everything else much better than he has been.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2015 : 11:52:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Adam Lee: I’ll Say It Again: Richard Dawkins Doesn’t Speak For Me:...Regardless of what I think about [Richard Dawkins], he is treated as if he’s the president of the atheist movement. Not only are his views assumed to be ours, his constant blunders distract attention from the valid and important points we have to make. That’s why it’s still important, when he makes these boneheaded proclamations, for atheists to emphasize that atheism is far more than just Richard Dawkins. He doesn’t speak for all of us, he doesn’t represent us, and more than a few of us consider him an embarrassment. For all of his alleged expertise at communicating science, Richard Dawkins needs to learn how to communicate everything else much better than he has been.
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It seems that everytime Dawkins leaves his area of expertise, he becomes foolish or worse. Sam Harris is a raging islamophobe. Hitchens, for all of his thoughtfulness was a neocon who thought our war in Iraq was a good idea. Well... There are three of the so called "Four Horsemen." The problem, which is very human, is putting people up on a pedestal. And that was done by the atheist community itself. The mistake is when we hale a book or an idea and forget that the author is human and not an authority on all things that they might feel compelled to comment on, for whatever reason.
The other problem is the media. They make assumptions that are often unwarranted like this or that person speaks for all of us. They simplify. Dawkins is probably the most famous atheist on the planet. So when Dawkins speaks...
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2015 : 13:39:47 [Permalink]
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| I'm glad Greta Christina is doing that. More "horesemen" are needed. :) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2016 : 12:06:59 [Permalink]
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| Oh, Dawkins. How the mighty have degenerated. :( |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2016 : 21:25:09 [Permalink]
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Holy cow!A Statement Concerning Richard Dawkins
The Northeast Conference on Science & Skepticism has withdrawn its invitation to Richard Dawkins to participate at NECSS 2016. We have taken this action in response to Dr. Dawkins' approving re-tweet of a highly offensive video.
We believe strongly in freedom of speech and freedom to express unpopular, and even offensive, views. However, unnecessarily divisive, counterproductive, and even hateful speech runs contrary to our mission and the environment we wish to foster at NECSS. The sentiments expressed in the video do not represent the values of NECSS or its sponsoring organizations.
We will issue a full refund to any NECSS attendee who wishes to cancel their registration due to this announcement.
The NECSS Team This is in response to the last "Dawkins Tweets" thing I wrote, above. They probably would have been better off not inviting Dawkins in the first place, but disinviting him is far better than letting him participate as if his Tweets meant nothing.
The NECSS is the Northeast Conference on Science and Skepticism, and while perhaps not being as well-known as, say, The Amazing Meeting, is playing host to an awesome lineup of speakers and featured guests in 2016, even without the Dawk.
Hat tips to Ophelia Benson and Rebecca Watson (who has more background on the whole thing). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2016 : 23:41:54 [Permalink]
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| NECSS is big, and me thinks even bigger now that TAM has likely dissolved. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2016 : 00:52:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
NECSS is big, and me thinks even bigger now that TAM has likely dissolved.
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Yep.
The CFI had a pretty big event last year, and I expect them to do it again. But you know... Dawkins! How can they not have him? He's now on the board.
And yeah. TAM is probably history. It sure felt like a goodbye event, last July. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2016 : 08:24:17 [Permalink]
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Adam Lee:...When Dawkins learned from West that the video depicted a real woman who’d been targeted for horrific death and rape threats and other harassment by misogynists, he deleted the tweet – but not, apparently, because he disagreed with the anti-feminist sentiments. It was only because he hadn’t meant to lend his imprimatur to harassment of a real, specific, identifiable person.
This is just the latest example of a merry-go-round we’ve seen many times, where Dawkins posts something breathtakingly ignorant or prejudiced or both, gets roundly criticized for it, grudgingly deletes the offending post, yet somehow learns nothing from the experience and soon does it all over again. There’s a Sisyphean quality to it...
(True to form, it was less than twelve hours before he changed his mind and decided the woman in question was probably lying about having been threatened, and that he was “tempted” to repost the video out of spite.) |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2016 : 10:24:16 [Permalink]
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A little digression because it came up in this thread. Today is the anniversary of James Randi's retirement. I, for some reason didn't register what he was saying in his announcement:
| To sum up, this has been a wonderful, exciting, enjoyable adventure for me, and I trust that I’ve given my friends some laughs, perhaps a few tears, and hopefully some valuable thoughts to carry away from my writings and from past TAMs. Let’s get together just once more at TAM13 – with joy and enthusiasm – to celebrate those good times. |
Underline is mine.
So there it is. He came right out and said TAM13 is the last.
An AMAZ!NG adventure… to be continued
I've not attended any of the other large skeptical conferences and it seems unlikely that I ever will. I do plan to be involved in a local SkeptiCamp in March. After all, it will take place right down the street from me, and I mean walking distance. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2016 : 10:37:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
He came right out and said TAM13 is the last. |
For him, for sure.
Of course, if there were going to be a TAM this year, you'd think amazingmeeting.com would have been updated by now. And since the JREF no longer accepts donations or memberships, TAM as a fund-raiser would be right out, I'd think. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2016 : 14:42:21 [Permalink]
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So... People who often criticize those they call SJWs are distancing themselves from Dawkins and even commenting on his assholery. Dawkins has managed to alienate almost everyone now!
I'd link to an example but it's just something I'm seeing on my FB timeline. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2016 : 19:48:32 [Permalink]
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| There are plenty of people telling Dawkins to stand tough, too. One person even Tweeted that the only way to keep respect is to never back down, never apologize. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2016 : 20:49:56 [Permalink]
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Statement by Richard Dawkins on NECSS: I woke up this morning to see a public announcement that my invitation to speak at NECSS 2016 had been withdrawn by the executive committee. I do not write this out of concern about my appearance or non-appearance at NECSS, but I wish there had been a friendly conversation before such unilateral action was taken. It is possible I could have allayed the committee members’ concerns, or, if not, at least we could have talked through their objections to my tweet. If our community is about anything, it is that reasoned discussion is the best way to work through disagreements.
I might mention that, before receiving any word from NECSS, I had already deleted the tweet to which they objected. I did it purely because I was told that the video referenced a real woman, who had been threatened on earlier occasions because of YouTube videos in which she appeared to her disadvantage. I have no knowledge of the authenticity of the alleged death and rape threats. But to delete my tweet seemed the safest and most humane course of action. I have always condemned violence and threats of violence, for example in this tweet, which I also posted the day before the NECSS decision.PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don’t EVER threaten anyone with violence. We should be free to use comedy/ridicule without fear it may inspire violence I wish the NECSS every success at their conference. The science and scepticism community is too small and too important to let disagreements divide us and divert us from our mission of promoting a more critical and scientifically literate world. A fan of reasoned discussion wouldn't even hint at suggesting that a 14-year-old boy interested in engineering connived his way to national publicity, a meeting with the President and a seven-figure lawsuit by rebuilding a clock. It's a totally unreasonable position to take, as it is based on no evidence whatsoever. And is cruel and demoralizing to say about a STEM student, too. At this point in time, the idea that Dawkins is any sort of champion of science or reason is ludicrous, at best.
I submit that Dawkins' unilateral action to retweet the video in the first place is grounds enough for anyone else to unilaterally decide they don't want Dawkins to be a part of their conference. Nobody has any obligation to have a "friendly conversation" with a public asshat before choosing to no longer associate with him. As soon as Dawkins has "friendly conversations" with the NECSS regarding things he's thinking about Tweeting, then they might have some sort of duty to have "friendly conversations" with him about his behavior before acting. Obviously, Dawkins doesn't think the former is necessary, so why should NECSS give even a microsecond of thought to the latter?
Someone who is concerned with a more critical world might understand this, since critical thought can clearly be applied to morals and ethics. On the other hand, someone more concerned with unity and ego might claim that the "community" is more important than his own jerkishness, but that's nothing more than a plea to allow that person to continue to be a jerk without consequences.
And that's the exact reason that many people were happy for the "schism" - they no longer wanted to be a part of a "community" that included people like Dawkins, and events like this gave them the courage and/or motivation to speak up. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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He doesn't speak for me, either
