|
|
|
|
Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 05/03/2001 : 13:28:23
|
This topic was pretty hot on the old board, so I thought I'd resurrect it (pun intended  ).
JohnPaul (is it John Paul?) Slater's mention of Apollonius of Tyana got me searching out info about him (Apollonius, not JohnPaul ). On one interesting site I found this interesting tidbit:
quote:
In Taylor's "Diegesis" (1829, Oaknam, England) we read :
"We have investigated the claims of every document possessing a plausible claim to be investigated which history has preserved of the transactions of the First Century and not so much as a single passage, purporting to have been written at any time within the first hundred years, can be produced to show the existence of such a man as Jesus Christ or of such a set of men as could be accounted to be his disciples."
Commenting on this statement by Taylor, J. M. Roberts, in his "Antiquity Unveiled" (1892, Oriental Publishing Co., Philadelphia) writes :
"On the other hand we have abundant proof that Jesus Christ is founded on the known life of Apollonius of Tyana, the earthly existence of whom has never been questioned, to which is added passages from the lives of various personages and teachings concerning the mythical gods of other lands. The Prometheus of the Greeks was the character which suggested the crucifixion (also the crucifixion of Krishna in Kristosite traditions). The Eleusinian Mysteries suggested that the 'Last Supper,' and these together with doctrines of ancient sun worship, were gathered and represented to be a history of the events connected with the life of the Christian Jesus. (Prometheus on the crag, suffering for the good of mankind, suggests Jesus on the cross, changing Prometheus for Jesus and the Scythian crag for the cross.)
"In the first chapter of Matthew the genealogy of Jesus is given as the twenty-eighth generation from David down through Joseph to Christ. In the third chapter of Luke the same genealogy is given as being the forty-third generation from Christ through Joseph to David. This is a very remarkable oversight on the part of the translators, for if there was anything they could agree on, it is in regard to the descent of Christ.
"All the Christians that ever lived or ever will live will find their ideal Jesus but a phantom -- a myth. They can chase it as a child would a butterfly through a meadow on a summer's afternoon, and it will elude their grasp. The Christian Jesus is nothing more than the Krishna of the Hindus."
[Comment: Note the linguistic similarity of the words "Krishna" and "Christian." In linguistics, the K and CH are often equivalent as consonant sounds, and in most cases vowels are not counted in comparative linguistics -- for if vowels were considered in the evolution of words, then modern Texans would speak a different language than modern New Yorkers, to provide a simple example. Thus, when these two words are analyzed linguistically, both have the consonant sequence of KRS(T)N, indicating a common cultural source.]
So is it "Christian" or "Krishnian"? 
|
|
|
Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 16:09:24 [Permalink]
|
quote:
So is it "Christian" or "Krishnian"?
Krishna is Hindi. Apollonius studied in northern India, following in the foot steps of Alexander the Great.
The same name in Greek (which Apollonius spoke) is Christos and in Latin (he founded his church in Rome where it caught on like gang busters among women of the upper classes) it is pronounced Christ.
Christian & Krishnian are the same word.
|
 |
|
|
Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2001 : 12:06:25 [Permalink]
|
Skeptic Forum seems like a good place to air my findings about the "historic" Jesus because, admittedly, it does sound like a conspiracy theory. Hopefully if there are holes to be punched in it, you guys can do it.
One thing I have not been able to find is exactly when followers of Jesus started calling themselves Christians. Christian (more precisely Roman Catholic) legend has the Apostles calling Jesus "Christ" to his face. This is of course ridiculous as Jews considered themselves "Gods' Chosen People." Of all the people in the entire world only they were Gods' favorite, everyone else was only fit to be one of their slaves. Ironic the problems that they had in the Twentieth-Century with another group that had a similar self image (The Master Race). If you had a group of Jews who not only thought that they had a Messiah but that theirs (unlike all the other Jewish Messiahs) was the son of God, they wouldn't call him after a "pagan" deity.
Christianity stops being (for the most part) legend and comes into actual history only with Constantine the Great. Up till now Christians were supposed to be piously conducting their affairs in secret. Now and again a group would be marched off to heaven via the digestive system of some lion. But for the most part they stayed out of sight.
One day Constantine has a vision (or so the story goes) and the Christians become respectable citizens.
Here's more "conspiracy theory" stuff. As soon as they come out of hiding the Church has a social structure - a hierarchy- already in place. But it isn't that of the Jewish religion. It isn't even something new that they devised themselves. It is the exact social structure of the Mythric Chaplains Corps of the Roman army. Not only are the ranks and titles the same but they are wearing (and are still wearing) the same uniform with only two minor changes in dress code. The Phrygian cap has been exchanged for a fabric version of the Egyptian Pharaohs' double crown. And the "Sword of Truth" graphic that the priests wear on their backs has had just the point taken off to make it look like a cross.
Now I have to ask myself 'why a cross?' Legend has it that they previously used a fish as their logo.
The 'loaves and fishes' /sermon on the mount is not Christian but is rather a mass to Mithra. Fish on Friday is also in Zoroastrianism.
Crosses were not some objects from a dim past then as they are now. They were an everyday reminder that the government dealt harshly with people who didn't follow its rules. Since the Imperial ruling was- convert to Christianity or die, having a cross as the logo may have had the same coercing effect as pirates using the skull and cross bones as theirs.
A major difference (the first) with Mithraism happens when the classical religious institutions are desolved. I don't know if we can thank Apollonius or Helena's influence because this would have been under Theodosius and not Constantine. Mithra, like every other religion in the Middle East had a no girls allowed policy. But now the priestesses of the goddess Vesta are transferred en masse to the new church.
Vesta was the goddess of the home and was the patron of Rome's female population. Everyone had a shrine to her just inside their front doors. These were called VESTibules. The Vestal Virgins wore VESTments and VESTs. Offerings made to the goddess for the protection of your home were called inVESTments. In the English language at least, Vesta may be gone, but she is not forgotten.
Many of the Vestal virgins chose to die rather than become 'brides of Christ'. But eventually it caught on. After all the uniforms, duties and even the temples didn't change. It would be interesting to find when the first Vestal Virgin used the first ruler on the first student ( Duh, ahhh …X plus X equals VIIIX ?…..wack!!!!)
It is looking more and more like Christianity didn't exist until at least the 300's CE.
|
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2001 : 12:33:23 [Permalink]
|
I love this thread. It's been one of my favorites since it first appeared. With a little rewriting, I think it would make an excellent feature article on SFN.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
|
|
|
Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2001 : 17:33:12 [Permalink]
|
quote:
With a little rewriting, I think it would make an excellent feature article on SFN.
Glad you like it. Use it as you will.
Do you like classical Greek theatre? Dr (some say Ms) Luke must have really been inspired by it.
In Euripides The Bacchae a persecuted god, Dionysus, cries out to his tormentor Pentheus, Pentheus, you disregard my words of warning…and kick against the goards.
Dionysus, as you may remember has Zeus for a father and a human mother. Thanks to a little nastiness from Hera he has to have a virgin birth (from Zeus' thigh). He's the guy who invented wine (he changed fresh water into it.) He could walk on water, calm storms and once put a group of evil sprites into some swine. He was killed but came back to life.
Now if you look in Acts 26 you find evil Saul on his way to Damascus to beat up some more true believers (Fearless Leader says to make things hard for Moose and Squirrel) when the resurrected Jesus says to him, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you, this kicking against the goads.
Scenes from Euripides occur at least (by my count) three times in Luke.
"If they liked it once they'll love it again!"
|
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2001 : 18:19:36 [Permalink]
|
Heh, I can't help but picture David Spade saying, "I liked it the first time, when it was called The Bacchae."
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
