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mgbworks
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - 12/19/2004 : 04:40:22
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I find it amazing that each year believers start stringing scads of lights earlier and earlier. No thoughts of global warming here. The herd then starts migrating toward corporate run stores to buy the latest whatever, secure in the belief that the things they buy have some use, oblivious to how much pollution and waste was made in their productions. Trees, so necessary to keeping down carbon dioxide levels, are killed to provide ornamentation. Then, the phony, pervasive, "Christmas Spirit," fills their hearts, as the cloying carols are played over and over. Then all the boxes, wrapping paper, trees and other garbage are left for our already overfull landfills. Wouldn't you think that those with children just might be interested in helping to provide an environmentally sound planet for their progeny to live in. Yet those with children are usually the worst transgressors; a fine heritage they leave: global warming, ozone depletion, pollution of groundwater, depletion of the oceans, toxic chemicals leaching from landfills and the waste of fossil fuels. Ah, Christmas, what a concept for the feeble-minded.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/19/2004 : 06:03:11 [Permalink]
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The End is Near! There is no need to worry about the earth; after all the Lord gave us dominion over it. We can do whatever we want!
The Rupture is going to happen any day now. Yep, it's right around the corner, and then you Godless heathens'll get a big, fat suprise! Then you'll wish you'd listened! Just you wait and see!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 09:41:52 [Permalink]
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A bit off-topic, but on a related note none the less:
quote:
This Season, Greetings Are at Issue
A Southern church presses store workers to say 'Merry Christmas,' not 'Happy Holidays.'
Faith-based initiative
(Gerry Broome / AP)
Times Headlines
By Ellen Barry, Times Staff Writer
RALEIGH, N.C. — This year, as Christmas season swung into gear, Pastor Patrick Wooden's followers fanned out to shopping malls across Raleigh to deliver a muscular message of holiday cheer: As Christian shoppers, they would like to be greeted with the phrase "Merry Christmas" — not a bland "Happy Holidays" — and stores that failed to do so would risk losing their business.
Nearly six weeks later, some citizens in Raleigh are seething over what they see as an attempt to force religion into the public square.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 10:48:51 [Permalink]
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Mine's made of plastic. Nyah! |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 15:25:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Trees, so necessary to keeping down carbon dioxide levels, are killed to provide ornamentation.
Trees, really, have never played that large a role in "keeping CO2 levels down".
Half (more or less) of CO2 released into the atmosphere is absorbed by our oceans. (basic law of partial pressures, and CO2 can dissolve in water).
The plant life in the oceans also utilizes plenty of that CO2. Much more that all the surface forests/plants ever do.
Personally, I'm more concerned about the pollution of our water (oceans and lakes) than the ammount of CO2 released into the atmosphere. That and the destruction of rain forests around the world. CO2, as a polutant, isn't high on my list of concern.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 15:40:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy:
A bit off-topic, but on a related note none the less:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Season, Greetings Are at Issue
A Southern church presses store workers to say 'Merry Christmas,' not 'Happy Holidays.'
Faith-based initiative
(Gerry Broome / AP)
Times Headlines
By Ellen Barry, Times Staff Writer
RALEIGH, N.C. — This year, as Christmas season swung into gear, Pastor Patrick Wooden's followers fanned out to shopping malls across Raleigh to deliver a muscular message of holiday cheer: As Christian shoppers, they would like to be greeted with the phrase "Merry Christmas" — not a bland "Happy Holidays" — and stores that failed to do so would risk losing their business.
Nearly six weeks later, some citizens in Raleigh are seething over what they see as an attempt to force religion into the public square.
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Who the fuck gave these assholes title to the month of December anyway? They stole the midwinter celebration in the first place, have absolutely no evidence that Jesus (if he ever existed) was born anywhere near 12/25 (nevermind the calendar changes in the last 2K years), and then expect the rest of the world to not only go along with the charade, but to participate according to rules some "reverend" pulls out of his ass. Screw him and the horse he rode in on. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 16:54:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Screw him and the horse he rode in on.
I agree. These dipshits need to go sit down and shut the hell up.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 17:34:11 [Permalink]
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I'm certainly glad that there are others in this forum that agree to some issues I stand part in. Christmas, not only a holiday of more waste than not, is a giant consumerists frenzy to buy, buy, buy. However, the basics of this holiday strike at the heart of most people, especially those like myself whose families have built tradition and memory into Christmas. Despite my desperately agonized disposition toward this facade which is Christmas, I cling to it because of the memories, just like those moments I crave McDonald's due to the happy times with the resteraunt I had as a child. I no longer affiliate with McDonald's, yet as it turns out, Christmas is more difficult to break away from. Perhaps when I age, start a family of my own to create new traditions, I can fully exercise my beliefs. Until now, I am almost forced to celebrate, yet happy to do so. However modifications were necessary. I purchased no tree, but I made one with materials I had around the house. I strung up a big hunter green electric blanket in a corner and taped little toys onto it, and stuck a mannequin head on top for the most essential ornament. I bought gifts from local retailers, and not retailers selling corporate product (like gift certificates at a local massage parlor, etc). And "buying" I am doing less of. Instead, I look heart and soul into items at thrift stores or random places that say much more than "purchased." I "came across" gifts that I want people to appreciate much longer than the latest kids toy at Toys 'R Us, something that will always remind that person of me. (For instance a wonderfully ornamented, over-the-top handmade vest I found at a vintage store in town that fits the receiver miraculously. Something, due to his nature, he will always like.)
Although someday I wish not to take a part of Christmas altogether, I think I can be satisfied with doing as little as possible that would be "conventional" or modifying what is. I want to change the world for the better just like most of us here, but unfortunately, I don't know how long it will take for these changes to take effect. None the less, I will continue to do what I feel is necessary. |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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mgbworks
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 03:05:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
I guess my only question is how far should we go to be environmentally safe? Should we no longer live in houses but outside on the ground? Should we not be allowed to own a fire place? Should we not be allowed to drive?
Exactly how far is too far?
In my opinion, what you have described is just a bit too far. Also, about the trees being cut down, a large percentage of those are grown on tree farms, not just randomly cut down from the forest.
What you have fallen prey to is the all or nothing mistake. For example, unless one is entirely moral all the time they should not sit on a jury or make any critical judgement of anyone, even a murderer.
What would you say to actions that cause the accumulation of pollution that will cause ten of thousands of deaths? Is that motive enough?
There are artificial trees. Those grown just for the holiday must be cut down, placed in a truck, shipped, then distributed to buyers who must transport them home. After use they then become a burden on Sanitation. Wouldn't it be nice if that land grew food. Or perhaps we could just let it return to forest, safe for flora and fauna.
What about discretion with lights. One or two strings of energy efficient lights instead of the competitive blazes of all types of lighting to out-do ones neighbor.
Couldn't we buy only gifts that are really needed. By all means, give children their toys, but must we package them so elaborately?
How can one go too far when all life on earth is at risk. |
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mgbworks
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 03:19:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Trees, so necessary to keeping down carbon dioxide levels, are killed to provide ornamentation.
Trees, really, have never played that large a role in "keeping CO2 levels down".
Half (more or less) of CO2 released into the atmosphere is absorbed by our oceans. (basic law of partial pressures, and CO2 can dissolve in water).
The plant life in the oceans also utilizes plenty of that CO2. Much more that all the surface forests/plants ever do.
Personally, I'm more concerned about the pollution of our water (oceans and lakes) than the ammount of CO2 released into the atmosphere. That and the destruction of rain forests around the world. CO2, as a polutant, isn't high on my list of concern.
Forest are a valuable carbon sink. If a tree, producing oxygen, taking in carbon dioxide is cut down, transported about and then placed in the hands of sanitation it has not fulfilled its potential. Carbon dioxide is a potent greenhouse gas, causing higher global temperatures, including the oceans. This threatens the ocean flora that produce so much of our oxygen. One cannot pluck a powerful source of pollution and its attendant result from the list and say that is what they are most concerned with. We're a closed environment, called earth. As Rachel Carson said, "Pollution of groundwater anywhere is pollution of groundwater everywhere."
Thank you for your well thought out reply. Sorry I had to disagree. |
| Edited by - mgbworks on 12/20/2004 03:32:42 |
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mgbworks
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 03:25:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
A bit off-topic, but on a related note none the less:
quote:
This Season, Greetings Are at Issue
A Southern church presses store workers to say 'Merry Christmas,' not 'Happy Holidays.'
Faith-based initiative
(Gerry Broome / AP)
Times Headlines
By Ellen Barry, Times Staff Writer
RALEIGH, N.C. — This year, as Christmas season swung into gear, Pastor Patrick Wooden's followers fanned out to shopping malls across Raleigh to deliver a muscular message of holiday cheer: As Christian shoppers, they would like to be greeted with the phrase "Merry Christmas" — not a bland "Happy Holidays" — and stores that failed to do so would risk losing their business.
Nearly six weeks later, some citizens in Raleigh are seething over what they see as an attempt to force religion into the public square.
Oh I think you are right on topic. The whole parcel is a faith-based initiative, isn't it. With Mr. Shrub in the White House, we can look forward to more of this chicanery, misquoting of the first amendment, ten commandments in schools and the religious right flexing their muscles in the public sector.
"Never forget, Hitler was a Catholic." George Carlin |
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mgbworks
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 03:29:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Screw him and the horse he rode in on.
I agree. These dipshits need to go sit down and shut the hell up.
Thanks for the reply. I needed a good laugh. Please, keep the vulgarity coming. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 03:37:38 [Permalink]
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One thing though, the more obnoxious they get, the stronger will be the backlash.
Give them enough rope, and so forth.
I myself, will no longer wish anyone a merry christmas. "Best of the season!" conveys the message nicely and if the shallow end of the gene pool doesn't like it, tough titty; they don't have to listen nor even return the sentiment.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 05:53:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Carbon dioxide is a potent greenhouse gas, causing higher global temperatures, including the oceans.
There is very little evidence to suggest that increased CO2 levels are responsible for the current trend of warming.
quote:
This threatens the ocean flora that produce so much of our oxygen.
Incorrect. Photosynthetic algae thrive in high CO2 environments. The more CO2, the better.
quote:
One cannot pluck a powerful source of pollution and its attendant result from the list and say that is what they are most concerned with.
Sure I can.
I agree, mostly, with the general sense of what you are saying. The environment is vitally important to our survival as a species, and the survival of what species are left after we get done messing the place up.
I just see the overzealous approach to environmental conservation as unproductive. I also find it rather amusing that you, in your lead-off post in this thread, blame christmas for "global warming, ozone depletion, pollution of groundwater, depletion of the oceans, toxic chemicals leaching from landfills and the waste of fossil fuels."
There are certain conveniences with which I will not (by choice) do without. Air conditioning, heating, convenient transportation, plastic, computers, internet access, ect... everything that we consume, in one way or another, contributes to the overall problem of pollution. The only way to completely eliminate pollution is for everyone to do without all the things we have worked so hard to create. It's NEVER gonna happen.
The only reasonable solution is that of compromise and continued efforts to produce less pollution, and continued efforts to clean up old messes. That, and much much more emphasis on alternate sources of energy. It's way past time to get rid of the oil.
I happen to agree that W is not interested in a cleaner environment (none of the morons who believe in the "end-time", and that it's comming soon, do) despite his attempts to fool us with his "clean air" crap.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 07:11:57 [Permalink]
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Such an evil time of year...
Christmas is very bad for the enviornment. It is the time of year that we consume all out of proportion to our actual needs. And we waste a great percentage of it. For convenince sake, much of the colorful gift wrappings are burned, as well as that horrible, plastic packaging so many small items come in. The rest end up in landfills, pushing them closer to their limits and necessitating the location of new ones, thus destroying more habitate. Disposing of the christmas tree, same deal, although these can be surriptiuosly dumped in the woods, and it is better that than the land fill. Strip off all the shiny crap, frist.
Turkeys are raised in adundance mainly for this holiday and Thanksgiving. Their waste along with their offal when dressed, present another disposal problem, a year 'round one. Visit a poultry farm sometime, then a poultry slaughter house. It will be an education (hogs present the same problem except there is very little offal when a hog is butchered).
As has been pointed out, electricty consumption rises, putting more pressure on power plants including the coal-burning stinkers in the mid-west. This puts not just CO/2 but more sulpher, into the atmosphere resulting in high acidity rain. The result of this can be observed in our dying, Appalachian forests.
Then, there is travel. Nobody, it seems, wants to stay home for Christmas except me. And this year, even I am going to go 20+ miles for the dinner. Thus, more exhaust emmitions and fuel consumption, and greater pressure on refineries, not to mention death and the destruction of the flesh on the highways, putting more pressure on medical facilities, boosting their consumption. My son-in-law, who is a hospital administrator, tells of "granny dumping." This is simply dropping off an aged relitive at the ER, telling the staff that they are sick, signing them in, then bugging out with the rest of the family for a week or so vacation. Nice, eh?
Petty and grand theft rates rise as do those for suicide and murder. Alcohol consumption rises, excaberating the former and putting more pressure on police departments and their resourcs.
The trucking industry rides like a mad bastard from Thanksgiving through New Years -- more fuel, more tires, more emmisions, more pissed off shipping clerks and dock-wallopers, more burned-out drivers.
And so forth ad nauseaum. Bah humbug, I'll be glad when it's over!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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