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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 03/31/2005 : 03:51:28
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Capitol bill aims to control ‘leftist' profs THE LAW COULD LET STUDENTS SUE FOR UNTOLERATED BELIEFS.quote:
“Some professors say, ‘Evolution is a fact. I don't want to hear about Intelligent Design (a creationist theory), and if you don't like it, there's the door,'” Baxley said, citing one example when he thought a student should sue.
 quote:
Similar suits could be filed by students who don't believe astronauts landed on the moon, who believe teaching birth control is a sin or even by Shands medical students who refuse to perform blood transfusions and believe prayer is the only way to heal the body, Gelber added.
“This is a horrible step,” he said. “Universities will have to hire lawyers so our curricula can be decided by judges in courtrooms. Professors might have to pay court costs — even if they win — from their own pockets. This is not an innocent piece of legislation.”
The staff analysis also warned the bill may shift responsibility for determining whether a student's freedom has been infringed from the faculty to the courts.
But Baxley brushed off Gelber's concerns. “Freedom is a dangerous thing, and you might be exposed to things you don't want to hear,” he said. “Being a businessman, I found out you can be sued for anything. Besides, if students are being persecuted and ridiculed for their beliefs, I think they should be given standing to sue.”
During the committee hearing, Baxley cast opposition to his bill as “leftists” struggling against “mainstream society.”
“The critics ridicule me for daring to stand up for students and faculty,” he said, adding that he was called a McCarthyist.
Here's the actual bill.
I am just overwhelmed by the stupidity of this. Do you think the author of this bill ever even went to college? Do they really think the college or university cannot handle hiring quality staff without this nonsensical oversight? What fantasy world do these idiots live in?
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 04:03:26 [Permalink]
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From the article: But Baxley brushed off Gelber's concerns. “Freedom is a dangerous thing, and you might be exposed to things you don't want to hear,” he said.
Hey, no shit? Learning facts about reality might not always be things we want to hear? Then I should sue my kindergarten teacher for telling me I'll never be able to fly using only a bathroom towel as a cape.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
What fantasy world do these idiots live in?
Not the one they want to, which is why they cause so much trouble.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/31/2005 04:05:15 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 04:43:35 [Permalink]
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| Well [tongue firmly in cheek] look on the bright side, maybe this will let those who went to 'Christian universities' to sue when they discover that they were taught a load of crap about creation and evolution. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 08:25:04 [Permalink]
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Reading the bill, it does not accomplish what Baxley wants. Here are lines 117-124:1004.09 Postsecondary student and faculty academic bill of rights.--
(1) Students have a right to expect a learning environment in which they will have access to a broad range of serious scholarly opinion pertaining to the subjects they study. In the humanities, the social sciences, and the arts, the fostering of a plurality of serious scholarly methodologies and perspectives should be a significant institutional purpose. Since ID is not a "serious scholarly opinion" (because there has not been any scholarship based upon ID, only popular writing), it fails the obvious legal test which would be created in response to the very first lawsuit. And note that "a plurality of serious scholarly methodologies and perspectives" is not encouraged for natural sciences, which biology is.
So, yet another law which will not do what its supporters hope it will do. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 11:50:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
Well [tongue firmly in cheek] look on the bright side, maybe this will let those who went to 'Christian universities' to sue when they discover that they were taught a load of crap about creation and evolution.
Well that's similar to one post on JREF. But that reply was serious. To which I say it is absurd and very dangerous any legislators should think to control education content in this way. Of course, to those of us here that is so obvious it need not even be said. But to the guy who wrote this bill, all I can say is Oh My God!!! And I don't even have a god. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 11:52:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Reading the bill, it does not accomplish what Baxley wants. Here are lines 117-124:1004.09 Postsecondary student and faculty academic bill of rights.--
(1) Students have a right to expect a learning environment in which they will have access to a broad range of serious scholarly opinion pertaining to the subjects they study. In the humanities, the social sciences, and the arts, the fostering of a plurality of serious scholarly methodologies and perspectives should be a significant institutional purpose. Since ID is not a "serious scholarly opinion" (because there has not been any scholarship based upon ID, only popular writing), it fails the obvious legal test which would be created in response to the very first lawsuit. And note that "a plurality of serious scholarly methodologies and perspectives" is not encouraged for natural sciences, which biology is.
So, yet another law which will not do what its supporters hope it will do.
Except that assumes the judges the religious right are trying to get into the system could even recognize serious scholarly opinion. That's assuming an awful lot. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 13:23:53 [Permalink]
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| I think there's a lot of legal precendent about what constitutes "serious scholarly opinion," and throwing out those standards would be more radical than anything today's "activist" judges are doing. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 19:58:50 [Permalink]
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And the conservatives blame the liberals for creating a culture of victims?
We're supposed to believe that these students are harmed because they hear things they disagree with, or even things that make them mad? Gee, wait till they get out of school--many more angering, frustrating, disrespectful people await them. It's called LIFE. Maybe they should surround themselves, cradle to grave, with only people who think exactly like they think. 
By this logic, should a socialist sue if she sits through an Economics class that covers capitalism? Should an anarchist sue if she sits through a government class?
Could it be...maybe...ideas they label "liberal" actually have the weight of logic, facts, and research behind them and THAT'S why they're taught? 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 20:34:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
By this logic, should a socialist sue if she sits through an Economics class that covers capitalism? Should an anarchist sue if she sits through a government class?
I think an organized campaign to do just these sorts of things would be a great way to combat this bill if it passes, and judges take it seriously. Such a campaign could so disrupt the college atmosphere that every parent of every student would be suing the state to get their tuition and other money back. The legislature would fall over themselves trying to repeal the law before Florida schools are all turned into liberal arts colleges without a shred of hard science to be found. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 21:24:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Could it be...maybe...ideas they label "liberal" actually have the weight of logic, facts, and research behind them and THAT'S why they're taught?
The "liberal elite" is a mantra for the religious right. Anything they disagree with, especially in universities, is blamed on the evil "liberal elite".
The true agenda is to alter the teaching structure in universities to exclude any actual science, and only teach theology. Christian evangelical theology at that.
Even moderate christians/conservatives buy into the "liberal elite" conspiracy. The hardcore right actually believes that it is the "liberal elite" who control the country, and are determined to have all mention of their god removed from society.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 21:35:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The hardcore right actually believes that it is the "liberal elite" who control the country, and are determined to have all mention of their god removed from society.
I wish it was true, and that they were making good progress. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 23:31:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabusequote:
Originally posted by Dude
The hardcore right actually believes that it is the "liberal elite" who control the country, and are determined to have all mention of their god removed from society.
I wish it was true, and that they were making good progress.
Hey, that's unfair!
We can't remove them from society. Who should then do all the cleaning and serve us our fast food?
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 02:12:09 [Permalink]
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This is waaaay worse than some Florida Bill. I heard there was some website that had a 'sample bill' for other state legislators to promote in their own states so I tracked it down.
Students for Academic Freedom
Clicking on the right hand side link to: "National and State Legislation Texts:" you get the scope of this campaign.quote:
National:
House Concurrent Resolution 318
Introduced by Georgia Congressman Jack Kingston into the U.S. House of Representatives
State:
California Senate Bill No. 5
Colorado House Bill, HB 04-1315
Introduced by Rep. Shawn Mitchell
Colorado Joint Resolution
In support of the Memorandum of Understanding
Colorado Memorandum of Understanding
Signed by the presidents of the major universities in Colorado agreeing to incorporate the principles of the Academic Bill of Rights in their institutions.
Florida House Bill 837
Georgia Senate Resolution 661
Introduced by Senators Johnson of the 1st, Hamrick of the 30th, Smith of the 52nd and Balfour of the 9th
Adopted March 22, 2004, 1:50 p.m. – 41 Yeas, 5 Nays, 8 NV, 2 Excused
Indiana House Bill 1531
Maine LD 1194
Massachusetts Legislative Bill 1234
Minnesota Senate Bill 1988
North Carolina Senate Bill 1139
Ohio Senate Bill 24
Tennessee House Bill 432 and Senate Bill 1117
Washington House Bill 1991
ALEC Model Resolution
ALEC Model Bill
If that wasn't bad enough you have The Student Handbook with sections like quote:
What Is An Abuse of Academic Freedom?
If you've read this far, you're probably already convinced that the intrusion of politics into the classroom is a problem on most college campuses. Students for Academic Freedom supports the free speech rights of professors and believes that faculty members should be able to determine the content of their courses. These rights, however, do not provide a license to use the classroom as a political soapbox, or provide an excuse for a professor to ridicule or otherwise demean particular religious or cultural views a student may hold. Nor do they supersede professors' obligations to uphold professional educational standards. These include fairness to all students. They include the responsibility to make students aware of the spectrum of scholarly viewpoints on any given subject. They include the responsibility to counsel students and to encourage their intellectual development. Treating students as political adversaries is counter-productive to this task. These professional standards are recognized by the American Association of University Professors and have been since 1915. In 1915, the American Association of University Professors issued its first report on Academic Freedom and Tenure. The premise of this report was that human knowledge is a never-ending pursuit of the truth; that there is no humanly accessible truth that is not in principle open to challenge; and that no party or intellectual faction can be assumed to have a monopoly on wisdom. Therefore, learning is most likely to thrive in an environment of intellectual diversity that protects and fosters independence of thought and speech.
C. Types of Classroom Abuses
Classroom abuses include, but are not limited to:
Partisan comments, presentations or materials unrelated to the subject of the class. Personal opinions on religion, politics, and other sensitive topics should be prefaced by the disclaimer that the views are the professor's own, and disagreement in any form will be both encouraged and respected. Reading lists, class |
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