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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:00:27 [Permalink]
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Ok lets talk about the Christians who burned million of Germans and Japanese civillians to death, without warning.(Non-nuclear)
Its no use with you, you explain away Christian extremes with a hand wave and then use similar non-christian extremes to prove your point.
My book says your wrong and it says it cant possibly be wrong, end of discussion. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:10:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Notice GK Paul's pattern, folks?
He gets asked a question that he can't deal with about some lie he's either repeated or has made up himself, so he claims lack of time, a pressing need to make himself scarce, etc. But just when he thinks we'd forgotten about his lack of response, he pops back in with a new whopper.
Jab, dodge, duck, weave, jab.
I agree with you halfmooner.
GK Paul is a poor excuse of a Christian representative on these boards, for the reason of his inability to address our rebuttals. It's just like hit-and-run postings, but he's doing it in a very rapid succession.
It makes me long for the "good old days" when hippy4christ was frequenting the boards. He had an open mind and the courtesy to respond to our objections. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:16:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
GK Paul is a poor excuse of a Christian representative on these boards, for the reason of his inability to address our rebuttals.
How much of that is due to his religion, and how much is due to his being 17?quote:
It makes me long for the "good old days" when hippy4christ was frequenting the boards. He had an open mind and the courtesy to respond to our objections.
Not only that, but the courtesy to respond to numerous other people from a public-library Internet connection, and respond well. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:23:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
GK Paul is a poor excuse of a Christian representative on these boards, for the reason of his inability to address our rebuttals.
How much of that is due to his religion, and how much is due to his being 17?
Alas, you're right Dave. Maybe I should cut this guy some slack. I remember being rather dogmatic and foolish when I was 17 years old, burning for Christ. The good thing for me was, I grew up. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/06/2006 11:24:08 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:26:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dave:
How much of that is due to his religion, and how much is due to his being 17?
Okay, creation88 is also a teenager... Again, polite and open... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:49:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Oh and while I was looking around (pertains to the beginning of this thread about Saul/Paul):
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Emphasis mine. See any problems here?
9-7 is in 3rd person and 22-9 is in 1st person. Luke probably wrote the 1st verse and Paul the second which may account for some of the non clarity but if you take both quotes literally there is no contradiction. The men in 9-7 definitely heard Paul's voice although they could see no man. So they did hear a voice. (Paul's voice). The men in 22-9 also heard Paul's voice but not the voice that spoke to Paul. While not the clearest of scriptures there is no literal contradiction. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 09/06/2006 11:59:52 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 12:25:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
GK Paul is a poor excuse of a Christian representative on these boards, for the reason of his inability to address our rebuttals.
How much of that is due to his religion, and how much is due to his being 17?quote:
It makes me long for the "good old days" when hippy4christ was frequenting the boards. He had an open mind and the courtesy to respond to our objections.
Not only that, but the courtesy to respond to numerous other people from a public-library Internet connection, and respond well.
I think it has nothing to do with religion or age and everything to do with upbringing.
Hippy and C88 were brought up with respect. Shall we trot out verlch as an example of an older religious zealot who had streaks of sexism, elitism, and the Magic Decoder Ring of all Christianity(TM)?
I miss Hippy and C88 in that respect. We could get some rip-roaring good discussions going on religion. Ones that you could learn from. (Not necessarily agree with, but learn from whence the held belief came from) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 12:50:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Oh and while I was looking around (pertains to the beginning of this thread about Saul/Paul):
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Emphasis mine. See any problems here?
9-7 is in 3rd person and 22-9 is in 1st person. Luke probably wrote the 1st verse and Paul the second which may account for some of the non clarity but if you take both quotes literally there is no contradiction. The men in 9-7 definitely heard Paul's voice although they could see no man. So they did hear a voice. (Paul's voice). The men in 22-9 also heard Paul's voice but not the voice that spoke to Paul. While not the clearest of scriptures there is no literal contradiction.
(above bolding mine)
Not so fast, GK Paul. Lets take a good look at Acts 9:7. Here it is (and a bit more for context):
"He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
(5)"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. (6)"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
(7)The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. (8)Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing."
Reading the passage shows that what they heard was the voice that spoke to Paul. I mean, really. Hearing your companion suddenly say "Who are you, Lord?", after falling down, would not leave you speechless. More likely you'd say "What did you say? Here, let me help you up." But hearing a disembodied voice could do the trick.
The contradiction, I think, stands.
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"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 13:29:12 [Permalink]
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I've got a suggestion, GK. Why not simply admit to what you've repeatedly proved here about your thinking, and say something on this order?:
"I believe what I do by faith alone. My faith addresses an arena that is not accessible to science or rational thought. My faith does not, and cannot, contradict science, and science does not and cannot contradict my faith. Rationality has nothing to do with faith. Indeed faith must be an absolute, and would only be corrupted by elements of rational thought, just as science would be corrupted by elements of faith."
There you have it, a simple, truthful statement of your belief system, and one that has served countless religious people for a very long time.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 14:43:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by leoofno
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Oh and while I was looking around (pertains to the beginning of this thread about Saul/Paul):
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Emphasis mine. See any problems here?
9-7 is in 3rd person and 22-9 is in 1st person. Luke probably wrote the 1st verse and Paul the second which may account for some of the non clarity but if you take both quotes literally there is no contradiction. The men in 9-7 definitely heard Paul's voice although they could see no man. So they did hear a voice. (Paul's voice). The men in 22-9 also heard Paul's voice but not the voice that spoke to Paul. While not the clearest of scriptures there is no literal contradiction.
(above bolding mine)
Not so fast, GK Paul. Lets take a good look at Acts 9:7. Here it is (and a bit more for context):
"He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
(5)"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. (6)"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
(7)The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. (8)Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing."
Reading the passage shows that what they heard was the voice that spoke to Paul. I mean, really. Hearing your companion suddenly say "Who are you, Lord?", after falling down, would not leave you speechless. More likely you'd say "What did you say? Here, let me help you up." But hearing a disembodied voice could do the trick.
The contradiction, I think, stands.
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"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 14:44:46 [Permalink]
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GK Paul said:
quote:
I not going to respond to the post because it implies I'm lying. If you think I'm a liar than don't respond to me anymore. And please don't tell me what I need to do in other forums anymore or I'll put you on ignore
If you knowingly repeat an untruth, are you not lying? If you continue to claim that Hitler based his arian philosophy on Darwin's theory you are lying.
My response to liars is not to ignore them or not respond to them, it is to call them on their lies. What you suggest is a serious ethical breach, by almost any standard. Especially a christian standard where you are commanded by god to not lie. If you knowingly protect or ignore a lie, you become party to that lie.
And you, if you persist in claiming that Darwin's ToE is responsible for Hitler's arian philosophy, you are telling a lie. More than one, actually.
As has been previously noted, would you blame your religion for the murders and wars carried out in it's name? Even if Hitler had used Darwin in his philosophy of arian superiority, it would still not harm the validity of Darwin, it would just mean that Hitler was misusing the theory.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 14:56:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by leoofno
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Oh and while I was looking around (pertains to the beginning of this thread about Saul/Paul):
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Emphasis mine. See any problems here?
9-7 is in 3rd person and 22-9 is in 1st person. Luke probably wrote the 1st verse and Paul the second which may account for some of the non clarity but if you take both quotes literally there is no contradiction. The men in 9-7 definitely heard Paul's voice although they could see no man. So they did hear a voice. (Paul's voice). The men in 22-9 also heard Paul's voice but not the voice that spoke to Paul. While not the clearest of scriptures there is no literal contradiction.
(above bolding mine)
Not so fast, GK Paul. Lets take a good look at Acts 9:7. Here it is (and a bit more for context):
"He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
(5)"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. (6)"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
(7)The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. (8)Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing."
Reading the passage shows that what they heard was the voice that spoke to Paul. I mean, really. Hearing your companion suddenly say "Who are you, Lord?", after falling down, would not leave you speechless. More likely you'd say "What did you say? Here, let me help you up." But hearing a disembodied voice could do the trick.
The contradiction, I think, stands.
In 9-3 suddenly a light from heaven appeared around Paul. Nowhere does it say the men did not see the great light from Heaven surrounding Paul. Seeing a light from Heaven surround someone would make me speechless, maybe not you. 22-9 which is the one probably written by Paul does say the men saw the light. Luke in 9-7 doesn't say the men saw the light but he doesn't say they didn't. Taking both quotes literally there is no contradiction. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 15:03:40 [Permalink]
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Funny, I didn't realize we were talking about the light, I thought we were talking about the voice, which there is definitely a contradiction. Why are you now trying to talk about the light?
And even if you want to talk about the light, the fact that it isn't mentioned to me would indicate that the writer didn't think there was one. Otherwise, I would think that a light from heaven would be something to mention, seeing as how that doesn't happen everyday. They were speechless because they saw Saul fall to ground.
So there is a contradiction, in either case. But the voice is definite. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/06/2006 15:07:32 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 15:07:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Nowhere does it say the men did not see the great light from Heaven surrounding Paul. Seeing a light from Heaven surround someone would make me speechless, maybe not you.
It also doesn't say they didn't see fourteen bears run past while on fire, which would also leave one speechless.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/06/2006 15:07:46 |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 15:19:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Funny, I didn't realize we were talking about the light, I thought we were talking about the voice, which there is definitely a contradiction. Why are you now trying to talk about the light?
And even if you want to talk about the light, the fact that it isn't mentioned to me would indicate that the writer didn't think there was one. Otherwise, I would think that a light from heaven would be something to mention, seeing as how that doesn't happen everyday. They were speechless because they saw Saul fall to ground.
So there is a contradiction, in either case. But the voice is definite.
I stand by my logic. I will not comment anymore about those 2 quotes. If you don't like my logic than you don't like my logic. If you or anyone else doesn't believe in the bible than you have the free will to make that decision. Christ says in Mark 16;16 he that believes(your preaching) and is baptized shall be saved. He that believes not shall be damned. You can believe or not believe it. It's your free choice. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 09/06/2006 15:24:14 |
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Caesar's Messiah
Topic Locked
