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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 09/07/2006 : 07:59:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Proselytizing should be against the forum rules.
Sorry, Dude, but I just find it hysterically funny when they do things like that. I think it illustrates, better than anyone else could, the logical and ethical bankruptcy of individuals like GK Paul when they give up all pretense of reasoned debate and instead resort to preaching the "Good News" at us. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 08:05:58 [Permalink]
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The Nazi racial policies were basically a form of Un-Natural selection as is any form of eugenics. It is based on selective breeding, something Humans have doing with animals ro thousands of years - long before Darwin.
The chapter on Race in Mein Kampf clearly indicates that Hitler was completely ignorant of genitics or how natural selection worked.
Blaming Communism on the theroy of evolution is absurd. For a long time Lysenkoismwas promoted in the Soviet Union This was based on Lamarck's idea that aquired chrachteristics could be inherited. Real genetics the idea of natural selection were anethema to the Communists.
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"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 08:42:38 [Permalink]
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Listen, I have to reply to this statement from the locked thread:
quote:
GK Paul:
I have a feeling Professor Singer, the most influential living philosopher according to some, would have no problem with this experiment. And I also have feeling he wouldn't mind it to be a live sex act (providing of course both the ape and the woman consented).
Singer would have strongly objected to that kind of experimentation. And you would know that if you had read The New Yorker profile on him. He is one of the founders of the animal rights movement and does not condone and is in fact against experimentation on animals.
Also, the idea that an ape would give consent to such an experiment is a philosophical discussion of ethics and should not be taken literally beyond the ethical questions that it raises. Singer would not approve of any of the Nazi experiments on people or animals as they are antithetical to his philosophy.
Once again, your feeling is wrong. Perhaps if you did some research, you wouldn't have to rely on Ann Coulter to tell you what to feel...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 16:16:05 [Permalink]
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GK Paul wrote: quote:
I've been criticized for my belief that Darwinism played an important role in Nazi idealogy. Please go to my last post in the Ann Coulter Book forum page 15 and I share some facts that support my opinion,
WTF? Seriously, WTF? How many times do how many people have to explain to you (with sources to back the info up) that
a.) There is ZERO evidence that Darwinism (which refers to evolution by natural selection - look if up here if you don't believe me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism) played ANY role in Nazi ideology.
b.) The supposed evidence presented by Coulter (the Mein Kamp quote) was quoted fully in-context by someone here and shown to be a vague notion of "evolution" more connected with Lamarckian evolution (which is NOT Darwinism), and the eugenics of Nazi scientists was a form of Social Darwinism (which is also NOT Darwinism). In regards to that passage in Godless, Coulter is either a lazy idiot or a lying fuckhead. And I use such strong language because, gee, silly me, I don't like being falsely compared to Nazis!
c.) Most importantly - even if Hitler was influenced by Darwinism (which people here have repeatedly established is false!) that would not discredit the biological Theory of Evolution one iota. It would only prove that Hitler used a biological theory to justify his brand of hatred and fascism. He could have used the Theory of Gravity to justify it in some way, too - would that discredit Gravity?
GK Paul, it is seriously telling about your beliefs that you conveniently ignore every good argument against you and Coulter's claims that have been put up here. I feel sorry for you and your beliefs based on willful ignorance and fear of hell. Don't think too hard now, or God will smite you for using the brain he designed. Right.
(Editing because I got a little trigger-happy with the bolding.) |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/07/2006 16:18:52 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 18:15:20 [Permalink]
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Dave_W said:
quote:
I think it illustrates, better than anyone else could, the logical and ethical bankruptcy of individuals like GK Paul when they give up all pretense of reasoned debate and instead resort to preaching the "Good News" at us.
Yeah, I agree.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 18:31:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
But I'm not mad at either of you because God created you and loves you and the Bible says to pray for those that revile and persecute you. And I'm not better than you either. You've got the right to believe or not to believe. God gives free will. But there is a price to pay if your far from God by your own choice. Just remember God loves you and wishes no man to perish. I was an atheist one time also. If you wish to continue without being rude or making personal attacks we can continue.
(emphasis added)
At what point was that man/woman gained free will. At the point that they knew the difference between right and wrong. At what point did they learn this, in the Garden of Eden (inagoddadavida) when they ate from the tree of knowledge. Who convinced Eve, in turn Adam, to eat the fruit of the tree. Looks like God should not be given credit for free will. You don't think? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 18:54:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul...
Ask Christ to help you to fight sin and your temptations because your not strong enough to do it on your own.
Oh, I see what you mean. Christianity is for pussies.
Evander Holyfield, the guy who defeated Mike Tyson twice, is a born again Christian. If you ever see him, why don't you mention that to him and see what he says. (or better yet, why don't you challenge him to a fight in the ring)
You mean he wouldn't turn the other cheek? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 09:09:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Well now that that's settled, GK, you can take on some of these Biblical contradictions, then these absurdities, and if you have time, this bad science.
Well thank you for bringing those inconsistencies in. They just prove that Christ "needed" to come. If man was perfect, without sin, and had perfect understanding of God (and thus no inconsistencies) than Christ never would have needed to come; and the death on the Cross was just a waste of time. Even Christ Himself while in His Earthly Body was not perfect. It wasn't until He paid the price on the Cross(for man's sin) and rose from the dead, that all power over hell death and the grave had been given to Him (by God The Father).
In your post, your first end quote is in the wrong place, GK, making it look like I said the whole thing though I think it is clear who said what there. I have corrected it here.
Your post makes no sense. Your god is supposed to be infallable. Your god supposedly has produced a Bible through men as authors to tell people about the Lord and the rules. Yet the text is so full of nonsense, it is rendered useless.
Either God communicates via "your heart" or through prayers or what ever, or the Bible contains the important information. If communication is direct, you don't need a Bible, if communication is via the Bible how is anyone expected to follow it when there are so many contradictions and absurdities?
Your answer is as silly as the text itself.
The Bible is the most read and best selling book of all time. But as I said, any inconsistencies prove that man was not fully connected to God as he was before man's first sin. Once man rejected God, he entered an unholy weakened state and was incapable of returning to God's holiness "thru his own power". Inconsistencies prove man was still far from God because of his sinful state. The only way man could be redeemed was thru the sacrifice of a perfect Being. For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son. (John 3:16)
Even after Christ's death Christians and non-Christians sin. But now Christians can repent for their sin by calling on the name of Christ who conquered the power of sin on the cross.
All this may appear silly to a non believer. But as the Bible says God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. Lest any person boast.
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"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 09:21:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Bible is the most read and best selling book of all time.
Irrelevant. Has nothing to do with its truth value.
quote:
But as I said, any inconsistencies prove that man was not fully connected to God as he was before man's first sin.
Nonsensical rationalization. More likely means that people were just making shit up.
quote:
The only way man could be redeemed was thru the sacrifice of a perfect Being.
Please explain the rationale behind this. Why did god have to come to earth in human form to have himself killed to save us from himself? If he wants us to be redeemed, just do it! What's with the silly games?
quote:
Even after Christ's death Christians and non-Christians sin. But now Christians can repent for their sin by calling on the name of Christ who conquered the power of sin on the cross.
If people, even those who believe, are still sinning, then he really didn't conquer sin, did he?
quote:
All this may appear silly to a non believer.
Do ya think??? |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 09:22:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I stand by my logic.
Meaning: It makes no sense in any other place than the fantasy world of my mind.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I will not comment anymore about those 2 quotes.
Meaning: I just had my ass handed to me on a plate. I can't win on intellect, so, in essence, I'm going to quit while I'm behind.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
If you don't like my logic than you don't like my logic.
Meaning: It only make sense if you suspend all rational thought.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
If you or anyone else doesn't believe in the bible than you have the free will to make that decision. Christ says in Mark 16;16 he that believes(your preaching) and is baptized shall be saved. He that believes not shall be damned. You can believe or not believe it. It's your free choice.
OK, then why are you here? You know what this site is all about, yet came unarmed and got your clock cleaned. You came spoiling for a fight, thinking that (armed with your Bible and the love of God) you were going to put us "evil, atheist/satanists" in our place.
News for you-I've lurked this site for a long time and watched many of you naive, God-fearers come in here hoping to put fear of righteousness in us. EVERY tactic that you use (ignoring facts, LYING **yes, I am calling you a LIAR, as well as a gutless turd...and yes, that's a personal attack**, dodging arguments, throwing red herrings, ad infinitum) has been used before. You are just another in a long line of those who will fail, yet again, to see the truth: you are a mindless sheep without an ounce of critical thinking ability.
Face it, admit that you are trying to start a fight and you've bitten off much more than you can chew. If you think you will get eternal salvation and that we will burn in hell, why are you concerned?
I never heard of this site before I hit a link to it. I had no idea what it was about. If the owner of this site doesn't like the fact that I'm talking religion in a religion forum he can come in here and publicly ask me to leave and I'll leave. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 09:36:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Listen, I have to reply to this statement from the locked thread:
quote:
GK Paul:
I have a feeling Professor Singer, the most influential living philosopher according to some, would have no problem with this experiment. And I also have feeling he wouldn't mind it to be a live sex act (providing of course both the ape and the woman consented).
Singer would have strongly objected to that kind of experimentation. And you would know that if you had read The New Yorker profile on him. He is one of the founders of the animal rights movement and does not condone and is in fact against experimentation on animals.
Also, the idea that an ape would give consent to such an experiment is a philosophical discussion of ethics and should not be taken literally beyond the ethical questions that it raises. Singer would not approve of any of the Nazi experiments on people or animals as they are antithetical to his philosophy.
Once again, your feeling is wrong. Perhaps if you did some research, you wouldn't have to rely on Ann Coulter to tell you what to feel...
We have a difference of opinion. I believe Singer would approve of this experiment if the ape seemed to enjoy it and the woman consented... If he sees no problem with allowing necrophilia with consent. I'm sure he wouldn't mind a ape having a little fun for the sake of science, as long as the woman consented also. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 11:14:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Listen, I have to reply to this statement from the locked thread:
quote:
GK Paul:
I have a feeling Professor Singer, the most influential living philosopher according to some, would have no problem with this experiment. And I also have feeling he wouldn't mind it to be a live sex act (providing of course both the ape and the woman consented).
Singer would have strongly objected to that kind of experimentation. And you would know that if you had read The New Yorker profile on him. He is one of the founders of the animal rights movement and does not condone and is in fact against experimentation on animals.
Also, the idea that an ape would give consent to such an experiment is a philosophical discussion of ethics and should not be taken literally beyond the ethical questions that it raises. Singer would not approve of any of the Nazi experiments on people or animals as they are antithetical to his philosophy.
Once again, your feeling is wrong. Perhaps if you did some research, you wouldn't have to rely on Ann Coulter to tell you what to feel...
We have a difference of opinion. I believe Singer would approve of this experiment if the ape seemed to enjoy it and the woman consented... If he sees no problem with allowing necrophilia with consent. I'm sure he wouldn't mind a ape having a little fun for the sake of science, as long as the woman consented also.
Kitten, you seem to forget one thing. Singer, for all I've read, accepts such things as necrophilia and bestiality purely on a philosophical/naturalistic standpoint. That is not to say he, as a person and the staunch defensor of animal rights he seems to be, would approve of such things in reality.
For some of us, there is a fine line between what is acceptable from a purely non-practical, philosophical standpoint and on the base reality. Then again, I'm not Singer (nor are you) and can't know what goes on in his mind, so what does it matter? Even if he did approve of it, so what? He's just one person, and a relatively obscure one, judging from the reactions of people in this board... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 12:40:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
GK Paul:
We have a difference of opinion. I believe Singer would approve of this experiment if the ape seemed to enjoy it and the woman consented... If he sees no problem with allowing necrophilia with consent. I'm sure he wouldn't mind a ape having a little fun for the sake of science, as long as the woman consented also.
Never mind the fact that it would be literally impossible to get an apes consent due to the fact that even the smartest ape would not be able to consider the possible repercussions of such an act, making this merely hypothetical ethical question, your assertion was that Singer would have no problem with Nazi experiments along those lines, which is patently false. Singer would have been the first and the loudest to object. He is an animal rights activist! You can disagree until the cows come home and you will still be wrong. Why don't you read about Singer before you make other stupid comments about him?
Frankly, Coulter has an excuse to mislead since it serves her purposes. You have no excuse because you have been given access to the actual facts about Singer…
quote:
GK Paul:
If the owner of this site doesn't like the fact that I'm talking religion in a religion forum he can come in here and publicly ask me to leave and I'll leave.
As absolutely frustrating as it is to converse with you due to your refusal to consider any fact that does not confirm your bias, you are safe as long as you don't break any of our rules.
Unlike most Christian boards, we don't ban people simply because we don't agree with them…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 14:19:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
But I'm not mad at either of you because God created you and loves you and the Bible says to pray for those that revile and persecute you. And I'm not better than you either. You've got the right to believe or not to believe. God gives free will. But there is a price to pay if your far from God by your own choice. Just remember God loves you and wishes no man to perish. I was an atheist one time also. If you wish to continue without being rude or making personal attacks we can continue.
(emphasis added)
At what point was that man/woman gained free will. At the point that they knew the difference between right and wrong. At what point did they learn this, in the Garden of Eden (inagoddadavida) when they ate from the tree of knowledge. Who convinced Eve, in turn Adam, to eat the fruit of the tree. Looks like God should not be given credit for free will. You don't think?
Satanists must believe in the Bible, because that's where we first hear that the angel Lucifer was created by God. God "gave" Lucifer the free will to reject his creator God. God could have destroyed him immediately if He wished, but God didn't because than it wouldn't have been free will. But God still has the power to punish Lucifer/Satan and those that are deceived into following Lucifer/Satan.
I'm not here to convince people I'm just here to warn people. Whether or not me or other Christians die for our cause doesn't matter because God's going to do what He says He going to do in Revelation one way or another and its not pretty for Satan and his followers. But God gives each soul a certain period of time to choose sides; and each soul is going to have to live with the consequences of that decision. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 09/09/2006 14:36:20 |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 15:12:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Satanists must believe in the Bible, because that's where we first hear that the angel Lucifer was created by God. God "gave" Lucifer the free will to reject his creator God. God could have destroyed him immediately if He wished, but God didn't because than it wouldn't have been free will. But God still has the power to punish Lucifer/Satan and those that are deceived into following Lucifer/Satan.
I'm not here to convince people I'm just here to warn people. Whether or not me or other Christians die for our cause doesn't matter because God's going to do what He says He going to do in Revelation one way or another and its not pretty for Satan and his followers. But God gives each soul a certain period of time to choose sides; and each soul is going to have to live with the consequences of that decision.
Good thing for me I don't believe in satan either, then. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Caesar's Messiah
Topic Locked
