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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2006 : 15:32:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Satanists must believe in the Bible, because that's where we first hear that the angel Lucifer was created by God.
Now you are blurting out falsehoods again, like a mindless parrot. It looks like you have no clue what satanists think or believe.
How about this quote from Wikipedia:
quote:
Satanism is a term that may refer to a religious, semi-religious, and/or philosophical movement. The term is normally applied by non-Satanists to those individuals who worship the entity called "Satan," and advocate the triumph of evil forces over good in the universe; however, members of the Church of Satan, the most organized Satanic group, reject this common association, as they do not actually believe in a being called "Satan," and use his name only as a symbolic allusion to certain materialistic and individualistic values.
(emphasis above mine)
It would seem you know precious little about that of which you speak. Please answer me, where do you think the line should be draw before calling someone "a teller of untruths", when they speak with alluded authority on subjects of which they are ignorant?
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I'm not here to convince people I'm just here to warn people.
No Christian who came here, has managed to present their warning in such a way to make us consider the warning being serious.
quote:
But God gives each soul a certain period of time to choose sides; and each soul is going to have to live with the consequences of that decision.
God isn't being fair, because some people get very long lives to make the choice, and others are snuffed in their teens and earlier (in some cases with the most excruciating pain). I refuse to accept the idea of a God who would permit that. It makes Him look like a sadist of the worst kind, especially since He presumably should know exactly what pain they are being put through. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:06:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
God could have destroyed him immediately if He wished, but God didn't because than it wouldn't have been free will.
And all the people that your god has destroyed (before god all of sudden got all hippy on us)....?
God loves you...conditionally.
quote:
...God's going to do what He says He going to do in Revelation one way or another
You should read up on what "revelation" really was...btw did you know your god has seven (seven ha ha ha) spirits?
quote:
But God gives each soul a certain period of time to choose sides;
Hmmm, you have free will, but god knows what you are going to do, so, no, you don't have free will since you are going to do it anyway because if you didn't god would have been wrong blah blah blah...
Geemak was right, you know. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/09/2006 16:10:14 |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:26:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
GK Paul:
We have a difference of opinion. I believe Singer would approve of this experiment if the ape seemed to enjoy it and the woman consented... If he sees no problem with allowing necrophilia with consent. I'm sure he wouldn't mind a ape having a little fun for the sake of science, as long as the woman consented also.
Never mind the fact that it would be literally impossible to get an apes consent due to the fact that even the smartest ape would not be able to consider the possible repercussions of such an act, making this merely hypothetical ethical question, your assertion was that Singer would have no problem with Nazi experiments along those lines, which is patently false. Singer would have been the first and the loudest to object. He is an animal rights activist! You can disagree until the cows come home and you will still be wrong. Why don't you read about Singer before you make other stupid comments about him?
Frankly, Coulter has an excuse to mislead since it serves her purposes. You have no excuse because you have been given access to the actual facts about Singer…
quote:
GK Paul:
If the owner of this site doesn't like the fact that I'm talking religion in a religion forum he can come in here and publicly ask me to leave and I'll leave.
As absolutely frustrating as it is to converse with you due to your refusal to consider any fact that does not confirm your bias, you are safe as long as you don't break any of our rules.
Unlike most Christian boards, we don't ban people simply because we don't agree with them…
Hitler loved dogs and children. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:29:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul...
I'm not here to convince people I'm just here to warn people.
Oh, I see what you mean. Christianity is for pussies and for stupid people.
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:32:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Satanists must believe in the Bible, because that's where we first hear that the angel Lucifer was created by God.
Now you are blurting out falsehoods again, like a mindless parrot. It looks like you have no clue what satanists think or believe.
How about this quote from Wikipedia:
quote:
Satanism is a term that may refer to a religious, semi-religious, and/or philosophical movement. The term is normally applied by non-Satanists to those individuals who worship the entity called "Satan," and advocate the triumph of evil forces over good in the universe; however, members of the Church of Satan, the most organized Satanic group, reject this common association, as they do not actually believe in a being called "Satan," and use his name only as a symbolic allusion to certain materialistic and individualistic values.
(emphasis above mine)
It would seem you know precious little about that of which you speak. Please answer me, where do you think the line should be draw before calling someone "a teller of untruths", when they speak with alluded authority on subjects of which they are ignorant?
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I'm not here to convince people I'm just here to warn people.
No Christian who came here, has managed to present their warning in such a way to make us consider the warning being serious.
quote:
But God gives each soul a certain period of time to choose sides; and each soul is going to have to live with the consequences of that decision.
God isn't being fair, because some people get very long lives to make the choice, and others are snuffed in their teens and earlier (in some cases with the most excruciating pain). I refuse to accept the idea of a God who would permit that. It makes Him look like a sadist of the worst kind, especially since He presumably should know exactly what pain they are being put through.
You say Satanists don't worship a being called Satan. But I believe they do believe in a being called Lucifer. Do they or don't they believe in a currently living being known as Lucifer.
Edited for grammar and clarification. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 09/10/2006 02:07:26 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:34:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
God "gave" Lucifer the free will to reject his creator God.
Do you have any Biblical evidence of that? So far as I can tell, the Bible states that only people were given free will. I have yet to see any verse stating that God gave free will to any angels, much less Lucifer himself.
If there's no evidence that God gave Lucifer free will, and there is evidence that only people were given free will, then the only logical conclusion is that God made Lucifer rebel. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:45:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
God "gave" Lucifer the free will to reject his creator God.
Do you have any Biblical evidence of that? So far as I can tell, the Bible states that only people were given free will. I have yet to see any verse stating that God gave free will to any angels, much less Lucifer himself.
If there's no evidence that God gave Lucifer free will, and there is evidence that only people were given free will, then the only logical conclusion is that God made Lucifer rebel.
The bible talks of Lucifer in Isaiah 14 verses 9-16 King James Version. Tell us more about your knowledge of Lucifer. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:50:42 [Permalink]
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Yeah, well where does it say Lucifer has free will?
More info:
quote:
So, the Isaiah passage does not connect, either historically or theologically, with the New Testament passages about the devil or the satan. By listening to the Old Testament passage on its own terms within its own context, we discover that Lucifer is not an Old Testament name for the devil or the satan. The passage in Isaiah 14:12-17 is directed at the downfall of the arrogant Babylonian rulers who took Israel into exile. By beginning with the New Testament, by making assumptions not supported by a closer examination of Scripture itself, and by using external theological categories as a lens through which to read Scripture, we may end up badly misreading Isaiah.
http://www.crivoice.org/lucifer.html |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/09/2006 16:54:51 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 16:55:54 [Permalink]
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More from above site:
quote:
Now, if we look at the text of Isaiah 14 in context, and without the assumptions we brought to it from the New Testament, the meaning of the passage becomes more obvious and goes a radically different direction. The book of Isaiah has spent the first chapters denouncing the sins of Israel and its failure to be God's people. There have also been expectations that God will work in new ways in the life of the nation to help them recover their mission as God's people. One of those ways would be through a new king to replace the corrupt Ahaz. Because of his pro-Assyrian policies, the nation was teetering upon the brink of catastrophe as Assyria expanded to the West (see Assyrian Dominance).
quote:
In that context, verses 12-21 are a poetic picture of that downfall. Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, then, are references to the Babylonian gods who could not save the king, and are themselves to be cast down. In fact, there is probably a reference here to the habit of ancient Near Eastern kings proclaiming themselves incarnations of the gods; with the fall of the kings, the gods also fell, often physically as the images that represented them were pulled down and destroyed (recall the symbolism of the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad).
Tell us more about your knowledge of Lucifer.
Google is your friend. Use it wisely.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/09/2006 16:59:27 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 17:05:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
The bible talks of Lucifer in Isaiah 14 verses 9-16 King James Version. Tell us more about your knowledge of Lucifer.
You're the one claiming that God gave Lucifer free will, so it's up to you to support your claims. Nothing in Isaiah 14:9-16 demonstrates your claim to be true. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 17:10:15 [Permalink]
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Apperently, Dave, the vast consensus is that Lucifer mentioned in Isaiah has absolutely nothing to do with the evil entity known as Satan (i.e. the Devil). It also appears that early Hebrews did not view Satan as anything other than the "attorney general" (the accuser) for God. The "modern" view of Lucifer appears to be extra-biblical, though most fundamentalist christians have no idea about this, as their pastors also do not know and do not do any research.
Another interesting site (there are tons in google to choose from): http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/christ/xt-ibel2.htm
Edit added link and fix spelling. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/09/2006 17:14:32 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 19:16:26 [Permalink]
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GK Paul said"
quote:
The only way man could be redeemed was thru the sacrifice of a perfect Being. For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son.
If god is omnipotent, then making a son is an insignificant thing.
Aside from that, the entire idea of your god comming to earth dressed up as a human and then having himself nailed to a cross, all for the express purpose of creating a path to heaven for humans (who otherwise must burn in hell) seems a bit stupid, even for the christian god.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 19:19:32 [Permalink]
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| I'm trying to figure out what exactly was the sacrifice; meaning that god knew what was going to happen, so when Jesus gave his life, he knew that in a few days he was coming back with a vengance. So what was the sacrifice? A sacrifice to me is one in which you give up something and do not expect to get anything back for it. If I knew that if I gave my life and in return I would receive immortality and omnipotence, etc., then what would stop me? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/09/2006 19:21:19 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 20:10:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Apperently, Dave, the vast consensus is that Lucifer mentioned in Isaiah has absolutely nothing to do with the evil entity known as Satan (i.e. the Devil).
Oh, yeah, I was aware of some of that, pleco, but it's actually irrelevant to whether or not GK Paul uses his free will towards obeying the Commandments and supplies us with the information that will show that God gave Lucifer (any Lucifer mentioned in the Bible) free will. He's made a positive claim about the Bible, and it'd be a shame (for his immortal soul) to have again borne false witness against God.
Thanks, though, pleco. Interesting stuff. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 20:41:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
GK Paul:
Hitler loved dogs and children.
I see. So anyone who loves dogs and children are a lot like Nazi's, by your logic.
You know, part of growing up is learning the ability to admit when you are mistaken…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Caesar's Messiah
Topic Locked
