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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 09/14/2005 : 12:33:43
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Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools is (still? / again?) a violation of the law, as it should be. But now, as usual, we can expect more whining and moaning from those who claim to be faithful. Although this decision actually reaffirms the position that one is entitled to believe in whatever myth one chooses, it's always amazing that so many, usually Christians, will see this as a threat to their right to believe. What it really does, and how easily this is overlooked by the religious zealots, is to prevent [insert any religion here] from foisting their belief in bogeymen upon the impressionable children of this land. Only those least capable of rational thinking will feel this reduces freedom. In reality it provides more.quote:
School Pledge Is Unconstitutional...
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."
Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 14:41:05 [Permalink]
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I'd have much rather seen the "One nation under God" phrase removed than to see the whole pledge banned. Ah, well.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/14/2005 14:41:29 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 16:19:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert...
I'd have much rather seen the "One nation under God" phrase removed than to see the whole pledge banned. Ah, well.
It looks like that's really what they're asking for.quote:
Judge: School Pledge Is Unconstitutional...
"All it has to do is put the pledge as it was before, and say that we are one nation, indivisible, instead of dividing us on religious basis," [Michael] Newdow told The Associated Press.
"Imagine every morning if the teachers had the children stand up, place their hands over their hearts, and say, 'We are one nation that denies God exists,'" Newdow said.
"I think that everybody would not be sitting here saying, 'Oh, what harm is that.' They'd be furious. And that's exactly what goes on against atheists. And it shouldn't."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 17:32:04 [Permalink]
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Everybody relax. This ain't gonna fly no higher'n the recent try at shitcannin' the 'under God' blither from the pledge.
I myself, am looking forward to the fundie/neo-conservative reaction. That promises be at the least amusing as their blood pressures attain peak apoplexy.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 18:33:36 [Permalink]
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Humbert wrote: I'd have much rather seen the "One nation under God" phrase removed than to see the whole pledge banned. Ah, well.
I disagree. If someone makes a pledge, it should be motivated by their own feelings, not be compulsory. Making it part of a ritual that students are compelled to engage in by both authority and peer pressure demeans both those who might not want to make the pledge and those who are genuinely patriotic. Not saying I'd sue over the Pledge being said (without "under God"), just that my personal preference is to go without compulsory pledges.
But anyway, the Pledge originally didn't have "under God". It was added in the 50's. I did a painting with the Pledge in it, but I used the old Pledge, and at an art show I overheard an elderly woman telling a young woman (as they looked at my painting), "That's how we said it when I was in school." |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/14/2005 18:35:00 |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 18:33:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy:
I myself, am looking forward to the fundie/neo-conservative reaction. That promises be at the least amusing as their blood pressures attain peak apoplexy.
Wait no more.
quote:
Wonder if a Big Earthquake is on its way now. Hopefully not.
A perfectly logical reaction, no?
quote:
I'm looking forward to seeing MIchael Newdow ,Maddlyn Murray o'Hare and all atheists and agnoxtics bow their knees to THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. i'M ESPICALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING SATAN BOW HIS KNEES TO CHRIST after all these millieums. I pray that everyone will see him bow and get to kick him in the rear end before he is sent to the LAKE OF FIRE. DEATH TO SATAN.
This fountain of Jesus' love must have missed the news that MADALYN MURRAY O'HAIR disappeared back in 95 and was later found buried in Texas. Confused her with the airport too.
quote:
Hello! They mention God in every piece of paperwork/speech for this country, including the Constitution
Here's the Constitution of the United States. 1000 points if you find "god" in it.
Sheesh! |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 18:47:10 [Permalink]
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A true display of thick-headedness and ignorance. The same guy who wrote this:
I'm looking forward to seeing MIchael Newdow ,Maddlyn Murray o'Hare and all atheists and agnoxtics bow their knees to THE LORD JESUS CHRIST...DEATH TO SATAN.
...uses the Star Trek Federation symbol for his icon. Apparently he's a Star Trek fan who missed all the blatant Secular Humanist messages in that show or the fact that its creator, Gene Roddenberry, was a prominent Humanist.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 19:14:08 [Permalink]
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Rapture Ready, oh how I detest those ignorant blockheads.
The banning of the Pledge lead one Rhodes Scholar to proclaim:
quote:
Federal judges should be outlawed. IMHO
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 19:26:01 [Permalink]
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I'd imagine most people don't really know the basic history of the Pledge of Allegiance, the adding of 'under god' during the Cold War/McCarthyism era. Some actually think it have always been the way its been.
R.Wreck...you should have warned us your top link was taking us to that awful fundie message board site. 
The below 'porno-lized' link to Rupture Ready helps to add a new twist to it. ...
http://tinyurl.com/79eeq
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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pfretzschner
Skeptic Friend
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 20:15:04 [Permalink]
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| It's fun to read this crap in the "redneck" dialect from the Dialectizer, found here: rinkworks.com/dialect/ |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 20:27:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pfretzschner
It's fun to read this crap in the "redneck" dialect from the Dialectizer, found here: rinkworks.com/dialect/
Haha, you are so right.
quote:
ah jest sar this hyar on Fox Noos.
It will only git wo'se befo'e thet day thet we is wif th' Lo'd, hearts will grow colder. ah's waitin' on th' day when th' Lo'd takes us an' we nevah hafta put up wif stuff like this. Th' day wif th' Lo'd takes corntrol back. Shet mah mouth!
Come quickly Lo'd! Fry mah hide!! Fry mah hide!! Fry mah hide!
and...quote:
Whar is this hyar court's jurisdickshun? Kin mah dotter an' son still say pledge ev'ry mo'nin'? This hyar is unbelievable. ah's hankerin' t'say menny un-Jedtian thin's right now about Ichabod Noodow, but ah's a-gonna hold mah tongue.
Thank you for finding a way to make this stuff readable! 
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/14/2005 20:30:01 |
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pfretzschner
Skeptic Friend
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 20:39:44 [Permalink]
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I'm reading it in "cockney" right now. It's even better!
From the "Interesting E-mails" section:
quote:
I'm bloody well an ole student of 'al Lindsey, right, Chuck Missler, David 'ockin', right, Grant Jeffries, John Walvoord, to name a few. I'm so excited and so 'ave a lookin' forward ter seein' us Savior come hammer and tack to cop His bride that some days I can't confine meself and concentrate on daily livin'. After readin' yor many subtitles I can tell yor 'Ave a lookin Up and 'Ave a lookin East as 'ard as I am. O' ter be found guilty of leavin' us nose and finger prints all over the plate glass as we 'ave a look for 'im ter come in the chuffin' clouds.
And there's "Jive", "Moron" (very a propos), "Pig Latin"... |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 04:33:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
... DEATH TO SATAN.
At a personal level, I have already killed Satan. And it really wasn't that difficult. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 06:12:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Everybody relax. This ain't gonna fly no higher'n the recent try at shitcannin' the 'under God' blither from the pledge.
I myself, am looking forward to the fundie/neo-conservative reaction. That promises be at the least amusing as their blood pressures attain peak apoplexy.
That made it all the way to SCOTUS before they pussed out and denied Newdow standing. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 06:50:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools is (still? / again?) a violation of the law, as it should be. But now, as usual, we can expect more whining and moaning from those who claim to be faithful. Although this decision actually reaffirms the position that one is entitled to believe in whatever myth one chooses, it's always amazing that so many, usually Christians, will see this as a threat to their right to believe. What it really does, and how easily this is overlooked by the religious zealots, is to prevent [insert any religion here] from foisting their belief in bogeymen upon the impressionable children of this land. Only those least capable of rational thinking will feel this reduces freedom. In reality it provides more.
I don't care if under God is said or not. I will teach my children about God and patriotism at home. As long as they can pray or mention God when they have free time in school I don't care. With that said I think this quote is over the top:
quote:
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."
Coercive? How are children punished if they do not say the pledge?
Anyway, we should have this much passion about our childrens quality of education. How do we improve the education system? This is an issue I would like to get as much attention as God in school.
Also, would reciting the gettysberg address or the declaration of independance be a coercive requirement to affirm God? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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