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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2006 : 12:09:03
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The intersectarian violence between Iraq's Shi'ia majority and Sunni minority has been slowly creeping towards full-scale, open conflict. Now, I fear, the Iraqi Civil War is beginning in earnest.
A few hours ago, men dressed in the uniforms of Iraqi police commandos walked into the Shi'ia Golden Mosque in Samarra, set explosive charges, and blew up the dome. Already, Shi'ias are attacking Sunni mosques in retaliation, and several Sunni imams have been killed.
From CNN.com:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/22/iraq.main/index.html
quote:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Gunmen on Wednesday targeted 27 Baghdad mosques and killed three Sunni imams in the wake of a bomb attack at one of the holiest of Shiite sites.
The wave of attacks followed a bombing at the Al-Askariya "Golden Mosque" in Samarra. The strikes, involving small arms, rocket-propelled grenades and mortar rounds, all happened between 11 a.m. and 5 p.m., police told CNN.
Three of the mosques were burned down, and in addition to the imams, three mosque guards were also killed. One imam was kidnapped.
Security was being beefed up around all mosques in Baghdad, police said.
The Iraqi Islamic Party, the largest Sunni Arab party in Iraq, condemned all the violence and said that Shiites had taken over Sunni mosques in the southern town of Diwaniya and arrested worshippers.
Meanwhile, gunmen stormed the party's southern Baghdad office, evacuated its employees and torched the place.
Iraqi and U.S. leaders urged citizens to remain calm and united, amid fears the sectarian violence could escalate into civil war.
There was warniing:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-01.htm
quote:
Published on Thursday, January 22, 2004 by Knight-Ridder
CIA Officers Warn of Iraq Civil War, Contradicting Bush's Optimism
by Warren P. Strobel and Jonathan S. Landay
WASHINGTON - CIA officers in Iraq are warning that the country may be on a path to civil war, current and former U.S. officials said Wednesday, starkly contradicting the upbeat assessment that President Bush gave in his State of the Union address.
The CIA officers' bleak assessment was delivered verbally to Washington this week, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the classified information involved.
The warning echoed growing fears that Iraq's Shiite majority, which has until now grudgingly accepted the U.S. occupation, could turn to violence if its demands for direct elections are spurned.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/22/2006 12:28:55
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 12:17:52 [Permalink]
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| Im sorry what? I was paying attention to Darfur, but that situation apperas to be resolved, via a Bush mention. Now whats the problem? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 12:28:22 [Permalink]
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BigPapaSmurf smurfed:
quote:
Im sorry what? I was paying attention to Darfur, but that situation apperas to be resolved, via a Bush mention. Now whats the problem?
See what happens when you divert your attention for just one moment? But not to worry: I'm sure we'll be hearing ressuring nosies from President Bush soon. While the military quietly begins plans for evacuation, Saigon-style.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 12:41:52 [Permalink]
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Iran gets into the act:
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.268169384&par=
quote:
IRAN: SUPREME LEADER BLAMES U.S. AND ISRAEL FOR IRAQ MOSQUE ATTACK
Tehran, 22 Feb. (AKI) - Iran's Supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has announced a week of mourning following the attack Wednesday morning on one of the holiest Shiite shrines at Samarra in Iraq, and accused the Americans and Israelis of responsibility. In a statement, the Iranian leader says those behind the attack were "the occupation forces and Zionism, which seeing their plans for Iraq dissolve, have planned this atrocity to sew hate between Muslims and fuel divisions between Sunnis and Shiites". In Iran, where 90 per cent of the population is Shiite, the attack against the shrine has caused disgust and consternation.
Ayatollah Khamenei went on to appeal to Shiites to "not fall into the enemy trap by attacking mosques and sacred places of [their] Sunni brothers".
"The enemy", Khamenei concludes "wants nothing more than weakening the Islamic front, right as Muslims with a single voice have been protesting against the continual provocations of their enemies", an apparent reference to protests around the Muslim world at Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 13:18:30 [Permalink]
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Just in from the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/22/AR2006022200329.html
quote:
Shrine Bombing Brings Deadly Reprisals
By ZIAD KHALAF
The Associated Press
Wednesday, February 22, 2006; 2:43 PM
SAMARRA, Iraq -- Insurgents detonated bombs inside one of Iraq's holiest Shiite shrines Wednesday, destroying its golden dome and triggering more than 90 reprisal attacks on Sunni mosques. The president warned that extremists were pushing the country toward civil war, as many Shiites lashed out at the United States as partly to blame.
As the gold dome of the 1,200-year-old Askariya shrine lay in ruins, leaders on both sides called for calm: But the string of back-and-forth attacks seemed to push the country closer to all-out civil war than at any point in the three years since the U.S.-led overthrow of Saddam Hussein.
"We are facing a major conspiracy that is targeting Iraq's unity," said President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd. "We should all stand hand in hand to prevent the danger of a civil war."
U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and the top American commander in Iraq also warned it was a "critical moment for Iraq" and called the bombings a deliberate attempt to create sectarian tension. They promised the U.S. would contribute to the shrine's reconstruction.
"This attack is a crime against humanity," Khalilzad and Gen. George W. Casey Jr., said in a joint statement.
In one ominous sign of how Shiites may react, Iraq's top Shiite cleric and the country's vice president hinted that local armed militias might play a bigger role in security in future, if the government can't protect such holy shrines.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 13:25:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
"This attack is a crime against humanity," Khalilzad and Gen. George W. Casey Jr., said in a joint statement.
/sigh....
Burning people alive, en mass, in ovens is a crime against humanity.
Blowing up a building, even filled with people, doesn't rise to that. Not even close.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 14:23:04 [Permalink]
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Dude reminded us: quote:
Burning people alive, en mass, in ovens is a crime against humanity.
Blowing up a building, even filled with people, doesn't rise to that. Not even close.
So very true. But in a mindset here a handful of "blasphemous" cartoons can lead to a deadly worlwide jihad, the selective destruction up of one of the Shi'ia sect's most holy sites can set a fiery whirlwind in motion. These people do consider their "holy" buildings to be far more important than human lives, even their own.
BTW, I suspect that the demolition men dressed as "Iraqi police commandos" really were what they appeared to be. The Mahdi Army, under the Shi'ite mullah Muqtada al-Sadr, controls the Iraqi police, and has used it extensively as a death squad against Sunnis. I suspect that this was a deliberate provocation, similar to Hitler's staged fake attacks against German interests in Poland, to create a cause beli. But, unlike Hitler's commandos, the Mahdi Army followers didn't even bother to dress up as the opposition. They knew this would work, anyway they did it.
I think that very soon, Iraq will be three warring states, with coalition forces only relatively safe in the Kurdish area.
In my opinion, Bush and the US and coalition military should declare "Mission Accomplished Again," form up mega-convoys, and begin fighting their way out to Kuwait and Kurdistan. Any delay would cause many additional deaths. "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run." Yes, this would be a disaster, but waiting any further would be even worse.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/22/2006 14:29:35 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 14:43:03 [Permalink]
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In a conversation I had with a friend of mine, about a year ago, I had contemplated several ways in which outside agents (like al-qaeda) could make Iraq into an absolutely untenable for US forces...
A large civil war between the three factions was what I suggested. Outside agents could stir this up by attacking one faction's holy sites and blaming the other faction. Do it enough and things will rapidly spiral out of hand.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 14:57:59 [Permalink]
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Dude wrote: quote:
In a conversation I had with a friend of mine, about a year ago, I had contemplated several ways in which outside agents (like al-qaeda) could make Iraq into an absolutely untenable for US forces...
A large civil war between the three factions was what I suggested. Outside agents could stir this up by attacking one faction's holy sites and blaming the other faction. Do it enough and things will rapidly spiral out of hand.
You were so right. I'd call you a prophet, except saying that might get either one of us beheaded.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 14:58:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dude:
/sigh....
Burning people alive, en mass, in ovens is a crime against humanity.
Blowing up a building, even filled with people, doesn't rise to that. Not even close.
But can we agree that it is extremely rude?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 15:10:51 [Permalink]
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Sadly, maybe I'll win that bet with my friend about the draft being reinstated before Bush leaves office after all. This is just not a good development.
So let me add to my 06-07 prediction...world war III (whatever number we're on now) will end when the influenza pandemic kills so many people the fighting had to stop....
Yes, history does indeed repeat. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 15:25:07 [Permalink]
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kil cried:quote:
But can we agree that it is extremely rude?
Indeed. Just not cricket.
B. bemoaned: quote:
Sadly, maybe I'll win that bet with my friend about the draft being reinstated before Bush leaves office after all. This is just not a good development.
So let me add to my 06-07 prediction...world war III (whatever number we're on now) will end when the influenza pandemic kills so many people the fighting had to stop....
Yes, history does indeed repeat.
You, too, are so full of cheer.
Well, I got my goggles (thanks for the suggestion, B.!), but I am still awaiting the arrival of my antiseptic hand wipes and R-95 respirators. I figured that UPS and the post office might get a tad slow if I waited for the pandemic, and supplies might get low as well.
BTW, my goggles are US military issue, and can protect my eyes from sun, wind, dust, and several types of lasers. So I've got one aspect of the coming Robot Rebellion ("Technological Singularity") covered, as well. But the goggles do make me look even more a dork than usual.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/22/2006 15:28:56 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 15:32:14 [Permalink]
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Kil said:
quote:
But can we agree that it is extremely rude?
Yeah. It is an example of extremely bad manners.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:15:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
But in a mindset here a handful of "blasphemous" cartoons can lead to a deadly worlwide jihad, the selective destruction up of one of the Shi'ia sect's most holy sites can set a fiery whirlwind in motion. These people do consider their "holy" buildings to be far more important than human lives, even their own.
I'm beginning to feel more and more indifferent...
If they chose to go out and murder eachother, then by all meas do. As long as they confine their murdering to their militant counterparts and ignore the innocent bystanders. And as long as they keep it confined in their own countries and don't inport their shit to the Civilized world.
The Kurdish parts of Iraq seems rather moderated in their reactions. Perhaps they should be allowed to break free to found their own nation. It would solve parts of the problem: One region with relative peace, and perhaps Turkey could solve their Kurdish Guerilla problem by chipping off their most troublesome eastern part of the country.
Kurds could be rebuilding their country as a secular nation with religious tolerance, while the Sunnis and the Shiites in the south dish it out to eachother.
I really don't understand how muslims can riot over the Danish cartoons then muslims are murdering other muslims in Iraq (and other Islamic nations as well).
The reason, I suppose, is that they are rioting against their own frustration at the lack of social security, lack of economy, lack of health care etc. And intelligent agents are cleverly through rhetoric directing the anger of the mod toward Denmark.
Each day the rioting continues I'm getting more inclined to think that Social Darvinism isn't such a bad idea after all. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:46:15 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse mouthed: quote:
I'm beginning to feel more and more indifferent...
If they chose to go out and murder eachother, then by all meas do. As long as they confine their murdering to their militant counterparts and ignore the innocent bystanders. And as long as they keep it confined in their own countries and don't inport their shit to the Civilized world.
The Kurdish parts of Iraq seems rather moderated in their reactions. Perhaps they should be allowed to break free to found their own nation. It would solve parts of the problem: One region with relative peace, and perhaps Turkey could solve their Kurdish Guerilla problem by chipping off their most troublesome eastern part of the country.
Kurds could be rebuilding their country as a secular nation with religious tolerance, while the Sunnis and the Shiites in the south dish it out to eachother.
That's a lot of hopeful "ifs," but I don't think there's much choice but to let them do unto one another whatever they like to do, though hopefully, the Kurdish state will remain protected by the West.
The overall result will be messy in the extreme, it will spill over to involve neighboring countries, and it will adversely affect the non-Muslim world as well. Bush & Company will thus leave the festering mark of their bloody-minded incompetence upon the world for decades.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/23/2006 01:42:39 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 01:41:31 [Permalink]
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It's bad, and it's getting much worse:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/23/iraq.main/index.html
quote:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Forty-seven Iraqis were killed and 50 Sunni mosques were attacked in Baghdad after a brazen early morning strike on a Shiite mosque in Samarra, Baghdad emergency police said Thursday.
Shot dead between 11 a.m. and midnight were imams, worshippers and bystanders, police said.
Three journalists for Al Arabiya television who had been kidnapped during the violence in Samarra were found dead Thursday near the city, an official with the Salaheddin Joint Coordination Center told CNN.
In all, four of the network's employees were abducted Wednesday evening, including reporter Atwar Bahjat.
One of the employees escaped, informing police about their kidnappings.
Al Arabiya's Baghdad bureau chief confirmed the deaths.
The day's carnage, unusual even by Baghdad standards, shook Iraq after a sacred Shiite shrine was bombed in Samarra.
U.S. and Iraqi leaders tried to calm the tension between Shiite and Sunni Arabs that was escalated by the strike at Al-Askariya Mosque.
Iraqi security forces across the country were placed on high alert, with officers on vacation or leave being told to report to duty.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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