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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
 Posted - 10/02/2006 : 10:48:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Who cares?
You obviously care.
Now you're saying I'm dishonest. I'm done. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 12:38:41 [Permalink]
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Actually, what I care about is that the system is corrupt. All the furor about Clinton being the victim and Bush being "incompetent" and Monicagate and all the rest is just a sideshow to keep you from doing something about a corrupt system. Neither Olbermann or Wallace called Clinton AND/OR Bush criminals. Neither spoke about the number of people that died under Clinton or Bush's terrorist campaigns. Isn't that just awful that one liar smeared the other liar more than the other liar smeared the one? Isn't Clinton so BRAVE? Shouldn't we applaud his criminal behavior?
Bullshit. You people twist reality out of shape and buy into this hogshit and then blame me for it. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/02/2006 12:40:11 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 13:55:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
YO, if this thread was to be for posts only agreeing with your point of view, then you should have said so in the opening thread. Olbermann's slobbering flattery of Clinton is something I don't agree with. Fine to criticize Bush, but why not let two criminals and liars fight amongst themselves? Who cares?
Hmmm.... I think you're missing the key point here. It's not about the past crimes of the previous president, so much as it is about getting a check on this current president and maybe have a hope of stopping at least SOME of his future crimes. The significance of Obermann's slobbering flattery of Clinton and blistering criticism of Bush is in relation to getting that Check.
Clearly the Republicans and their conservative allies have been working overtime to save their Congressional majority by:
A. Rewriting history a bit to heap all the blame for all that went wrong pre-9/11 on the Clinton Administration.
B. Mis-representing Bush as a decisive super-leader who's kept America safe since 9/11.
And
C. Mis-representing the many errors and (yes) crimes of the Bush Administration since 9/11 and all that Congress has Rubber-Stamped and/or failed to oppose, as effective, just, moral, necessary, etc measures.
If this propaganda campaign works, then the Bush Administration keeps it's Rubber Stamp Congress, the Executive Branch is left without a serious Check on power for another two years, and We The People get 2 more years of decidedly un-Compassionate Conservatism, all around bad domestic and international leadership, eroding civil rights, and so on. Obermann bluntly denouncing the lies and the liars is about the future more than it is the past.
Now, you're very concerned about all the past wrongs, and you should be. That's a big deal. But those wrongs are not very likely to be addressed, unfortunately. Aside from the campaign blame game, as far as the two parties are concerned, past presidential crimes are water under the bridge. So the most pertinent thing right now is what happens going forward?
You can bet your left nut that a Republican Congress translates to an unfettered Bush Administration and, yep, more crimes. I like to think a Democratic congress will check at least some of that. And so woo hoo Olbermann! I've never watched your show but I liked your words on YouTube! Go get 'em! |
-Chaloobi
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 21:41:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo...
Actually, what I care about is that the system is corrupt. All the furor about Clinton being the victim and Bush being "incompetent" and Monicagate and all the rest is just a sideshow to keep you from doing something about a corrupt system.
And exactly what, beside bitching and moaning, are you doing about the corrupt system, Gorgo?
quote:
Neither Olbermann or Wallace called Clinton AND/OR Bush criminals.
Neither of them called John Wayne Gacy or Charles Manson criminals, either. But since the subject of the discussion wasn't the particular criminal aspects of any of those people's lives, don't you agree that only an idiot would expect them to have been discussed?
quote:
Neither spoke about the number of people that died under Clinton or Bush's terrorist campaigns.
Neither spoke about the number of people who died under Hitler's terrorist campaign or the Spanish Inquisition, either. And again, since the number of people who died because of those situations or because of Clinton's or Bush's actions wasn't the subject of the discussion, only a fool would have expected any commentary on them. I'm sure you agree with this, also.
quote:
Isn't that just awful that one liar smeared the other liar more than the other liar smeared the one? Isn't Clinton so BRAVE? Shouldn't we applaud his criminal behavior?
You're the one who seems to believe that anyone applauded, or should applaud Clinton's criminal behavior, Gorgo. And since everyone else understands the link from the original post differently than you do, you're the odd man out. Perhaps one solution to your problem with not understanding the same way as everyone else is for you to learn to read better.
quote:
Bullshit. You people twist reality out of shape and buy into this hogshit and then blame me for it.
We're really only blaming you for completely misunderstanding the article linked in the original post, for being such a poor communicator that you apparently don't understand what you read and can't express yourself in a clear, cogent manner, and for hijacking this thread. We're not buying into any hogshit, so we're certainly not blaming you for that.
You keep whining and complaining about all those criminals in the government. And it certainly is okay to unload, to simply vent, after all we all do it here from time to time. But you're accusing the rest of us of ignoring or being distracted from doing something about government corruption. That seems pretty cocky since you probably don't know what any of us might be doing to try to help reduce corruption. It also seems pretty arrogant for you to be mouthing off like that unless you are actually doing something productive towards reducing the corruption.
So how about it, Gorgo, exactly what is it you're doing about the corrupt system? What solution are you offering to the rest of us? What would you suggest we do to reduce that corruption? Will crying about it make it any better? Should we vote for the other party, the third party, stop voting? Should we write our senators? Should we join together in an armed uprising? Come on, after all this time of you carrying on about how bad everyone is in the government, and about how nobody is doing anything about it to your satisfaction, do you have any more to offer than your constant criticizing? What are you doing to make it better, anything?
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 02:38:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Had it been true that Clinton had been distracted from the hunt for bin Laden in 1998 because of the Monica Lewinsky nonsense, why did these same people not applaud him for having bombed bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan and Sudan on Aug. 20, of that year? For mentioning bin Laden by name as he did so?
That day, Republican Senator Grams of Minnesota invoked the movie "Wag The Dog."
Where does it say here anything other than Clinton is brave, etc. Does it say something in this quote that contradicts that? O said he was brave. O asked why his actions were not applauded. What am I missing?
School me then, guy. Where does it say anything here other than Clinton was brave and Clinton should be applauded and Clinton was the saviour of the universe, and these bullies are smearing him, which Democrats would never do to anyone? It is implied that Clinton was just a good, but limited guy trying to do a good job, and yes, he didn't get bin-Laden, but look at all the wonderful things he did to try.
Olbermann got rich working for a corrupt system. You're applauding that. What am I doing? Asking you to look at what he's doing. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/03/2006 11:45:53 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 04:06:21 [Permalink]
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[quoteAnd since everyone else understands the link from the original post differently than you do, you're the odd man out. [/quote]
Please let the record show that if a lot of people believe something, then it must be true. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 05:24:42 [Permalink]
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| Or that if one person believes differently that the rest, then the majority must be deluded and wrong. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 05:31:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Or that if one person believes differently that the rest, then the majority must be deluded and wrong.
NO one has made that statement that I recall. Someone did make the statement that I am wrong because I am outnumbered.
Olbermann wonders why these people did not applaud Clinton. Did he say that they really shouldn't have because it is a violation of everything that is reasonable to hurl Cruise missiles into other countries? Did he say that he didn't agree that they should be applauded? He said "why didn't they?" Does that mean that he disagrees and was too shy to mention it? Does that mean that applaud really means something else in Dave W.'s dictionary and I need to get a copy of that? Does that mean he should have said "LOL" "SIGH?" |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/03/2006 05:34:19 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 07:42:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo...quote:
Had it been true that Clinton had been distracted from the hunt for bin Laden in 1998 because of the Monica Lewinsky nonsense, why did these same people not applaud him for having bombed bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan and Sudan on Aug. 20, of that year? For mentioning bin Laden by name as he did so?
That day, Republican Senator Grams of Minnesota invoked the movie "Wag The Dog."
School me then, guy. Where does it say anything here other than Clinton was brave and Clinton should be applauded and Clinton was the saviour of the universe, and these bullies are smearing him, which Democrats would never do to anyone? It is implied that Clinton was just a good, but limited guy trying to do a good job, and yes, he didn't get bin-Laden, but look at all the wonderful things he did to try.
It doesn't say anything anywhere in there about Clinton being brave. It doesn't say that Clinton should be applauded. It doesn't say anything about Clinton being the savior of the universe. It doesn't say bullies are smearing him. It doesn't say Democrats would never smear anyone. And if you believe it says any of that stuff, you're insane, Gorgo.
It didn't even imply "that Clinton was just a good, but limited guy trying to do a good job, and yes, he didn't get bin-Laden, but look at all the wonderful things he did to try." Olbermann's comment implied, within the context of the entire piece, that the Republican spin machine was blaming Clinton for inaction because of a distraction, and went on to suggest that if they believed that to be true, they overlooked a particular action he did take. Olbermann made no judgment whatsoever regarding the moral, legal, or criminal implications of that action. You obviously misread it. But with you, Gorgo, by now, that's to be expected.quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo...quote:
Originally posted by me...
And since everyone else understands the link from the original post differently than you do, you're the odd man out.
Please let the record show that if a lot of people believe something, then it must be true.
More evidence that you don't have the ability to effectively understand what you read. Let me phrase that in a way that even an idiot could understand it, and see what it really means by placing it in context...You're the one who seems to believe that anyone applauded, or should applaud Clinton's criminal behavior, Gorgo. And since everyone else understands the link from the original post differently than you do, you're the odd man out. Perhaps one solution to your problem with not understanding the same way as everyone else is for you to learn to read better. You see, it wasn't about something being true if a lot of people believe it. You seem to understand Olbermann's commentary piece differently than everyone else in this conversation. Do you think all the other people in this discussion read that piece in a particular way, understanding Olbermann intended it in a particular way, and that you, individually, actually know better what he meant, and that your unique interpretation of the commentary is correct even when there seems to be a broad consensus that it meant something else?
Oh, and you missed this part of my post. When are you going to give us your fix for the dilemma?...You keep whining and complaining about all those criminals in the government. And it certainly is okay to unload, to simply vent, after all we all do it here from time to time. But you're accusing the re |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 08:16:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
It doesn't say anything anywhere in there about Clinton being brave. Gorgo.
quote:
Mr. Clinton responded as you have seen.
He told the great truth untold about this administration's negligence, perhaps criminal negligence, about bin Laden.
He was brave.
Then again, Chris Wallace might be braver still. Had I in one moment surrendered all my credibility as a journalist, and been irredeemably humiliated, as was he, I would have gone home and started a new career selling seeds by mail.
The smearing by proxy, of
Were we defining idiots who can't read? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/03/2006 08:35:25 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 08:34:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Gorgo:
Please let the record show that if a lot of people believe something, then it must be true.
What some of us believe is that Bush has to be restrained. I believe that you believe that too. You may not agree, but getting a democratic majority in congress is our best hope of doing that. There isn't much we can do about Clinton. And that is why I asked you if you have a pragmatic bone in your body.
While you are busy being righteously indignant, you attack the very voices that are tying hard to get a job done that needs to be done. Voices in the media are finally standing up and saying something about the current administrations lies, and instead of seeing that as progress, you are unsatisfied. Oh well.
I have been a war protester for a very long time now. And frankly, it is counter productive to think that we should hold out for a systemic change when what is happening right now is so absolutely the worst we have ever had. First things first, Gorgo!
GeeMack nailed it. If you really believe that we support criminal actions by our presidents just because we are focusing on Bush right now, who happens to be our problem right now, you miss the point completely…
It is my belief that pragmatism trumps my idealism in a crisis. Apparently, you don't share that belief.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 08:39:52 [Permalink]
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I didn't say anyone should not focus on Bush's misdeeds. That's fine. If you're going to do it by applauding criminal behavior, then that's not so fine.
If you think anything will be solved by working to get another Demopublican in office, then go ahead and increase poverty, slaughter lots of foreigners, put a large percentage of our population in prison and put us all in danger from terrorists and pollution and keep saying that we're forced to keep validating a corrupt system.
Were there words there that someone didn't understand? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/03/2006 08:44:13 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 08:46:46 [Permalink]
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| I give up... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 09:10:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
[It doesn't say bullies are smearing him.
quote:
The headlines about them are, of course, entirely wrong.
It is not essential that a past president, bullied and sandbagged by a monkey posing as a newscaster, finally lashed back.
You're right. He says that the bully, who was part of a conspiracy to smear Clinton, and I agree that there is a conspiracy to smear Clinton, was sandbagging him.
That would be ridiculous of me to say anything about how some bully was smearing him. Sorry.
The universe thing was hyperbole, but that was his attitude. The guy did no wrong and O is wondering why everyone isn't applauding Clinton. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/03/2006 09:20:08 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 09:21:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
And exactly what, beside bitching and moaning, are you doing about the corrupt system,
I see. Discussion should be avoided in a democracy. Cool. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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