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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2007 : 07:45:06
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Intereating article in Newsweek about an evolution-believing woman marying a creationist:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16473854/site/newsweek/
He didn't meet her expectation of a creationist being an in-your-face anti-evolutionist. He is quiet about his faith, and didn't even try to convert her. And his family, despite being creationist, are loving and kind people.
My take is that she shouldn't be so surprised. No one ever said that all creationists are ignorant loud-mouths. Those are just the ones we notice the most because they are so vocal and abrasive.
I think most creationists are creationists because thay have been brainwashed since the day they were born to believe it. They have never seriously contemplated its correctness by examining the evidence. They are not bad people, just misguided in this area. They are just as capable of being nice, and charming, as anyone else.
In the early creationist movement, the leaders sent many a believing student off to college to earn degrees in Geology, Biology, etc, in order to create scientists who would be on their side and who could then attack the establishment. The problem was that most all of them, when faced with the real evidence, not stuff manufactured by other creationists, instead dropped their creationist beliefs.
The guy she married may be on his way to changing anyway. He no longer attends church, which sounds very un-fundamentalist to me, preferring instead to worship in private.
Could I have married a creationist? Sure.
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"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 16:13:58 [Permalink]
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Neat story. It does bring up factors we don't think about often, if ever. Most people are fairly decent. (That's one of the reasons I hate to see them captive to magical thinking).
My next-door neighbor in Aberdeen, Washington was an older, white, church-going Presbyterian man. You couldn't have had a better neighbor. He didn't put his Christianity between himself and others. He was a fiddler who was leader of the local Old Time Fiddlers Association. He was liberal politically, and anti-war. A WWII vet himself, he had a son in the Iraq war, who was married to a black ex-Army woman. The daughter-in-law attended the music sessions, and line-danced with the old white people. It was a wonder to see a young black woman being taught intricate country dancing steps by old, country white folks. So cool.
I'd just like to add that the kind of skeptics most religious people are aware of are probably also of the loud, in-your-face variety. Misperceptions can go both ways. It seems a good starting point for both sides to assume the average member of the "opposition" is a decent enough person.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 16:28:18 [Permalink]
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Just goes to show that you don't have to be racists or a bigot; you can find plenty of reasons to hate people on an individual basis.  |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 16:54:26 [Permalink]
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I wouldn't mind dating a creationist if she was exceptionally good looking and an awesome <four-letter procreation word>. 
However, I'm stuck with a fair lover (who does measure 36-24-36  ). Not the most beautiful woman in town, but definitly smarter than average (top 25%), likes both Star Trek, Star Wars and Red Dwarf. Secretary of the Astronomy club for 10 years. But most importantly, she likes my sense of humour. 
What more could I ask for? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 17:02:05 [Permalink]
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The sense of humor bit trumps everything else. Marry her!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 18:28:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Could you marry a Creationist?
Marry? I can hardly stand to be in the same room with them.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 18:36:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Could you marry a Creationist?
Marry? I can hardly stand to be in the same room with them.
And how is that incompatible with marriage?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 22:50:55 [Permalink]
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We really only see the nutjob religious people, because they are so in-your-face. They are not a solid representation of most religious people. And lets face it.... we like to argue with them.
As for having a relationship with a creationist? I doubt I could. Even if they were one of the "normal" religious people who was never in-your-face about their beliefs, I think the difference in personal philosophy would be a severe impediment to a serious relationship.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 23:09:54 [Permalink]
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I just figured out the answer to the leading question: Depends.
Once I'm wearing Depends, I won't care one way or the other.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 09:29:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
As for having a relationship with a creationist? I doubt I could. Even if they were one of the "normal" religious people who was never in-your-face about their beliefs, I think the difference in personal philosophy would be a severe impediment to a serious relationship.
Same here. I doubt I'd be able to stomach it for very long, impatient and intolerant as I am.
Casual dating, on the other hand, if hot enough... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 17:27:50 [Permalink]
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Marry, no.
1) I need someone inteligent to talk to
2) I'm not any good at being married
One night stand, yes. If she's cute. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 19:08:29 [Permalink]
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Marry, mabye.
I am reasonably tolerant against someone having differing views from me on important issues. This could definitely be the case for the christianity/creationist issue. However, I would see some very strenuous points coming up, that would be hard to bear in the relationship and would matter more then , for example, her views on homeopathy.
One would be sex. A fundamentalist christian will not want to have sex before marriage. Personally, since sex is such a personal issue and, in my mind, important in a marriage, I would not want to have marriage before sex.
Also, more specifically on the christianity issue, although it would not affect me directly, I would see trouble ahead when children would be forthcoming. I would be comfortable with them learning about mainstream, non-literal christianity and even letting them go to church. But I would never, ever, agree to teaching them that a literal reading of the bible has any validity at all. I can not imagine that we would ever reach agreement on such an issue and this would definitely strain the relationship, possibly to breaking point. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2007 : 00:58:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
One would be sex. A fundamentalist christian will not want to have sex before marriage
That is a myth.
Sure, there are some people who abide by that old rule and don't have premarital sex, but the majority (probably a large majority too) of people are to busy boning/getting boned to pay much attention to that rule.
Remember the study done on teens who took that "virginity oath"? It showed that the ones who took the oath were having more, and more varied kinds of, sex than teens who didn't take it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Master Yoda
Skeptic Friend
59 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2007 : 01:32:31 [Permalink]
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It depends on how vocal/demonstrative the partner or potential partner is or is going to be. (That latter part is impossible to discern - maybe they take their "faith" a lot farther later in the relationship.)
Put yourself in my shoes. I'm living with a Thai girlfriend for over four years. She's a Buddhist. Not something that generally should worry one, but quite counter to my personal beliefs (or lack of same). She's also, though, heavily into a lot of woo woo! Her mother was diagnosed this year with fairly advance Alzheimer's. It's tragic, as she's only 50. In reading up on the disease she and her family latched onto the fact that it was rare to see AD in someone so young. (Not "rare", not "impossible".)
They are rural Thais from the Lao-speaking area. Very superstitious in so many ways. Their solution: A mean uncle paid a shaman to put a curse on mom and the only cure was to raise three thousand dollars (of mine) to pay a bigger shaman to reverse the curse!
I love this woman. She's improving, but this is so ingrained in them over thousands of years that it will be a long time extricating her from her beliefs. I go sightseeing with her to temples (she's going to see the Buddha), and she doesn't insist I burn insense or pray, and even puts up with my non-belief and sometimes snide comments. Does this mean she's converting? I doubt it. She's just determined that she can tolerate my weird beliefs as I can tolerate hers. (I draw the line at giving money to scam artists, though - that she and her aunt tricked me on, and it'll never happen again.)
If you have a bible-thumping fundie and an active guerrilla theater atheist, you're heading for trouble. But if you're the kinds of people who have conservatives and socialists for friends, and can just as easily hang out with catholics, jews, muslims, et al, then you can probably handle a relationship with someone of different beliefs. The real key is whether your beliefs define you or merely a part of you.
Oh, and on a derail - the answer to the question most often asked: Yes, she cooks Thai! Eat your hearts out! For Christmas dinner, she insisted on doing the soup and appetizer. I did all the traditional western stuff. We thus wound up with the usual 12 kilo turkey, oyster stuffing, mashed, yams, quarts of gravy(made from scratch, natch), and appetizers of green papaya salad, tom yum gum, and prawn cakes. A good time was had by all!
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2007 : 04:05:53 [Permalink]
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Mm, yes, I have friends in a wide cross-section of beliefs and personalities but see, none of them were science-denying fundamentalists (not even the muslim ones, who were adorable and reasonable at all times). I am tolerant of different beliefs (most of time), but I love science too much. I'd want to talk and discuss it, as I do with my friends.
Now, if he/she were not against discussion and took it well, maybe, then... suppose it's depends. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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