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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2007 : 21:45:57
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Hi, I'm part of a group called shadows of Manitoba. We are a group of skeptics, believers, and skeptical believers. We investigate supposed haunted areas in and around Manitoba. We are trying to prove scientifically if a place may or may not be haunted. Anyhow, we do have a forum and are looking for more people to come tell their opinion on topics. Along with believers, we are also looking for more skeptics to voice their opinion, giving some balance, and furthering conversation without everyone agreeing. So it would be more than helpful if any of you signed up. It doesn't cost anything and all you need is to create a screen name and password. Please if you are interested in helping out come and see what we are all about. You can learn more at www.shadowsofmanitoba.ca .. To join the forum just click FORUM at the top of the page...
Thanks a lot, and hope to see some of you there…
p.s. don't forget to vote shadows as top paranormal website while you're there.
Cheers,
- Carly
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 22:50:28 [Permalink]
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| Well, your board doesn't seem to work for me. I can't find any posts... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 03:16:56 [Permalink]
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I don't want to log in until I've read some of the forum threads. I don't need to post anything but would like to read more before registering.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2007 : 03:24:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I don't want to log in until I've read some of the forum threads. I don't need to post anything but would like to read more before registering.
Ditto.
The wise skeptic looks before he/she leaps. All too often, we get folks in here who did not research the site first, to their ultimate dismay. So hows 'bout just a little peek...?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:06:54 [Permalink]
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Succubus Posted: Jan 8 2007, 12:29 PM
Member
Group: Staff
Posts: 72
Member No.: 9
Joined: 4-July 06
based on personal opinion and/or experiences. what are your beliefs and disbeliefs on psychic ability about what can or cant be done, whether you think it is something supernatural or science of the mind and capability of a human when the mind is exercised.
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~*Per nex quod cruoris, nos vadum ortis interum*~
Indy Woods Posted: Jan 9 2007, 06:24 PM
Historian
Group: Staff
Posts: 103
Member No.: 7
Joined: 4-July 06
Personally I believe that the mind is like an untuned radio. At times with the right circumstances, a "station" can fade in or out. Some people have the ability to tune in on those "stations"and others don't or don't know how. If you do learn how to tune in to something, then excercise can definately strengthen and improve it. As far as the question,"what can or can't be done", I think anything is possible and I believe everyone has the ability to develop one or more senses to make it more acute. No two humans are the same and what one person develops and excercises would be unique to them. Having said that, I mentioned in another post that I have studied magic and tricks for a while now and know that there is a lot of trickery designed to make us all believers in the impossible. As of yet I have not seen any real magic which keeps me sceptical to other people's claims. Anything may be possible but my motto is "Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see". This keeps me level headed, open minded and sceptical in most situations.
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salsguy Posted: Jan 9 2007, 07:04 PM
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Posts: 18
Member No.: 14
Joined: 7-July 06
There have been documented cases of mediums helping police departments and accurately predicting unforseen events. That sways me to believe there are some people fortunate enough to have the ability to tune their mind into psycic phenomena. However, science will always try to explain psycic ability logically, and many times a scientific explaination makes sense. Usually neither the psycic or science has any hard set evidence to back up their explainations.
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bushman Posted: Jan 14 2007, 10:48 AM
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Joined: 6-July 06
My experience tells me that when there is something to be gained from it, it is usualy a hox. However some people have a natural ability to read the past, the present, the future, a space, a person, in wayse that are far beyond me.
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Chaos Hippy Posted: Jan 25 2007, 12:03 PM
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Joined: 24-January 07
I'm nowhere near having a concrete idea of what it all means, but I've got some vague notions of how my mind is trying to interact with the world around me. It's all energy to me. As far as I can tell, psychic phenomena are one of many possible expressions of that energy in the form of human potential.
Yeah, that makes no sense, but I'm so newbie to this I'm still sqeaking so that would explain that.
demogirl Posted: Jan 25 2007, 12:07 PM
Co-ordinator/Sensitive
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For me spirits are humans not of this earth plane.
Im an empath, meaning I fell their presence, i feel and sometimes act out their emotions. Sometimes i will hear whispering. You have to open up yourself. Its not easy for me.
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Please don't watch me!
Chaos Hippy Posted: Jan 25 2007, 12:20 PM
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Joined: 24-January 07
It's all sensation to me. I don't usually see or hear things, though I sometimes do. I usually feel things, specifically what I referred to as "energy", because that's what it feels like. It sort of feels like a current running through me, though I generally don't have much control over it.
demogirl Posted: Jan 25 2007, 01:06 PM
Co-ordinator/Sensitive
Group: Admin
Posts: 279
Member No.: 31
Joined: 7-September 06
You have to be carefull and not attract negative energy. Makes me sick.
And i mean that really sick. YUK!
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Please don't watch me!
Chaos Hippy Posted: Jan 25 2007, 01:15 PM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 24-January 07
Only occasionally have I been able to tell the difference. I think that's largely because I almost never interact with anything other than normal ambient energy. I'm rarely if ever in situations where I'm in contact with anything unusual. Unfortunately I do have a tendency to soak it up, so when I do interact with something out of the norm, it tends to stay with me.
demogirl Posted: Jan 25 2007, 01:23 PM
Co-ordinator/Sensitive
Group: Admin
Posts: 279
Member No.: 31
Joined: 7-September 06
Thats when i have to do a cleansing and litrally sick it up.
It takes everything out of me. Monkey has seen what it does to me.
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Please don't watch me!
Chaos Hippy Posted: Jan 25 2007, 01:40 PM
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Joined: 24-January 07
The one adverse reaction I can remember is from before I was even vaguely aware of what I was perceiving. In that situation is was a sudden and unshakeable fear that hit me while I was outside a girlfriend's house that would go away until we were back inside. It left me shaken up for a while and I never figured out what caused it. If I had been older and less of a teenaged moron at the time I might have had a chance to figure it out.
Succubus Posted: Jan 25 2007, 01:56 PM
Member
Group: Staff
Posts: 72
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Joined: 4-July 06
i just think all us sensitives, empaths, psychics whatever you wanna call us are all crazy... lol.. jk... i love being a sensitive..especially realizing it at my age so i have my whole life to learn to control it and make it stronger.. im gonna be like some kinda crazy lady by the time im 70
This post has been edited by Succubus on Jan 25 2007, 01:57 PM
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~*Per nex quod cruoris, nos vadum ortis interum*~
Stargazer Posted: Jan 25 2007, 02:26 PM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 30-December 06
I am very much like you Sharon. I sense and feel emotions! I have seen blurred figures and shadows but not very often. I can get information in my head which when I act upon, can be accepted by the receiver. It is really frustating not being able to see fully or communicate fully as you can doubt yourself sometimes as to whether it is your own emotions you are picking up on or not. I am learning to trust my instincts, and when I do, I am usually successful. It's still hard sometimes!
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Chaos Hippy Posted: Jan 25 2007, 03:15 PM
Member
Group: Members
Posts: 29
Member No.: 47
Joined: 24-January 07
I know what you mean. I can never be sure if I'm really perceiving anything out of the ordinary or if I just want to be and am convincing myself that I am. Some things I'm sure about, but they're generally fairly minor. Most areas of perception are things I'm so unfamiliar with I have no way to identify them.
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:09:09 [Permalink]
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Unregistered
In truth I really do not like Orbs.
Well........ to qualify the statement, I do not like the fanatical Orb-Chasing that has been popularised by television paranormal programs.I also do not like the fact that they seem to be picked up predominantly on digital camera and not conventional SLR cameras, but the truth is that not only have they been caught on film but they have been witnessed by the naked eye as well.
I do not like the assumptions that have been made about them : In particular that they are the primary phase in the materialisation of ghosts and spirits in particular, especially when so many orbs have been recreated by dust and water droplets being sprayed into the air. Remember every time we move around we kick up small particles of dust and constantly expire moisture.
A large number are undeniably dust, water vapour, insects, camera defects, aspherical lens defect, lens flare and downright Fraud.
I would advocate anyone who is still of a mind that Orbs on digital images are Paranormal in origin should briefly visit the ghostgadgets Webpage and spend some time reading about their experiments and findings.
But, even with a DEVA fitted over the lens, can we really claim that they are all fake, natural in origin or not, for some I would argue cannot be rationally explained in the terms given above.
let me explain what I mean...
For the history of the phenomena of the Orb, we must perhaps start this journey not in the 21st century, not even in the 20th but in the late middle Ages. There seems a weight of evidence to suggest that the belief of the Middle Ages was that ghosts walked around carrying little candles before them. This idea persists until during the late 19th century it is substituted with a more scientific one involving chemical or phosphorescent flames, said to precede the apparition. This is certainly mentioned in Crowe's 1850 the Night Side of Nature, where she writes that :
"I meet with innumerable cases in which this phosphorescent light is one of the accompanyments [of the ghost] the flame sometimes proceeding visibly from the figure.”
Of the examples that she gives is an interesting case from Bristol where, in a house allegedly haunted by sounds, as though someone wearing creaking shoes was walking around the house, it is noted that :
“Mr Jones, who is a man of by no means a nervous constitution, declares he has several times seen a light flickering on one of the walls.”
Another example is furnished from Bremen, where a Madame (Frau?) Gottfried, a notorious unrepentant Poisoner saw rapidly following the death of her first husband (by poisoning)
“As she was standing in the dusk of the evening, in her drawing room, she suddenly saw a bright light hovering at no great distance above the floor, which advanced towards her bedroom door, and then disappeared”
This phenomenon occurred on three successive evenings and on another occasion Frau Gottfried saw a shadowy figure standing near to her. She assumed that it was the ghost of her husband, this did not however put paid to her penchant for poisoning.
At some point in the late 19th or early 20th century, see Elliot O'donnell in his "Confessions of a Ghost Hunter" published 1928 we see the phenomena of a number of various coloured lights, of a spherical shape, floating about the room.
The ghost candle idea has gone to be replaced by the sphere, or in modern parlance The Orb.
With such a weight of evidence from reputable sources, that the orb as an entity exists should be in no doubt, that it is linked to a spirit is also a possibility (but more work to prove this link is needed), what is to me a mystery is why are these objects so rarely seen in our modern world, indeed apparitions as a whole seem to be less inclined to show themselves than formerly.
The answer I believe may have much to do with light pollution, there is much evidence to suggest that bright light (flash light from torches and cameras included ) destroys the ectoplasm which the orb is built from. I pinch material from another piece of mine on lighting to demonstrate what I am talking about here.
Whilst for the investigator the best conditions would be stark bright white light, so that any fraud would be instantly detected ; bright pure white light seems to be proven to be detrimental to the materialisation and perhaps also to the medium. Certainly it must be far harder for the medium to enter the trance state, whereby the materialisations are produced, in bright light, consider how difficult it is to get to sleep with a bright light in your eyes. The effect of bright electric lighting upon ectoplasm may be demonstrated by Florence Maryatt in her book “There is no Death” 1917, where she personally observed the effect of such bright light upon Katie King, the spirit frequently materialised by Florence Cook. The effect was in this instance, startling.
On another occasion "Katie King" was asked at the beginning of the seance by one of the company, to say why she could not appear in the light of more than one gas-burner. The question seemed to irritate her, and she replied,
"I have told you all, several times before, that I can't stay under a searching light I don't know why ; but I can't, and if you want to prove the truth of what I say, turn up all the gas and sec what will happen to me. Only remember, it you do there will be no stance tonight, because I shan't be able to come back again, and you must take your choice.
Upon this assertion it was put to the vote if the trial should be made or not, and all present (Mr. S. C. Hall was one of the party) decided we would prefer to witness the effect of a full glare of gas upon the materialized form than to have the usual sitting, as it would settle the vexed question of the necessity of gloom (if not darkness) for a materializing stance for ever. We accordingly told '' Katie" of our choice, and she consented to stand the test, though she said afterwards we had put her to much pain. She took up her station against the drawing room wall, with her arms extended as if she were crucified. Then three gas-burners were turned on to their full extent in a room about sixteen feet square. The effect upon "Katie King” was marvellous. She looked like herself for the space of a second only, then she began gradually to melt away. Lean compare the dematerialization other form to nothing but a wax doll melting before a hot fire. First, the features became blurred and indistinct, they seemed to run into each other. The eyes sunk in the sockets, the nose disappeared, the frontal bone fell in. Next the limbs appeared to give way under her, and she sank lower and lower on the carpet like a crumbling edifice. At last there was nothing but her head left above the ground then a heap of white drapery only, which disappeared with a whisk, as if a hand had pulled it after her and we were left staring by the light of three gas-burners at the spot on which "Katie King" had stood.”
This topic of lighting, as applied for the greatest effect during a seance, is commented upon by Gustave Geley in his Clairvoyance and Materialisation: A Record of Experiments” in 1927. Here he comments that :
One of the great difficulties attending ectoplasmic manifestations arises, as is well known, from the injurious action of light on the production of the phenomena...Light seems to act injuriously in two ways - (1) by disturbing the trance, (2) by opposing the actual process of materialisation. On both counts, the brighter the light, the more difficult it is to obtain the phenomena.
Geley suggested that a faint red light which is controlled via some form of potentiometer may be tried to some effect as long as :
“The light is kept low till trance is complete; the light may then be very slowly increased up to sufficient visibility, but care must be taken not to direct the light on the medium. Only reflected light should reach him, and the dorsal region should always remain in shadow. “
The dimmer the conditions the better seems to be the key, however in addition to the subdued lighting Findlay 1931 "On the edge of the etheric" advocates that :
Quiet and harmonious conditions are also essential, and the condition of the atmosphere at times interferes with the results. For example, when the air is heavily charged with electricity the results-are poor, the best manifestations occurring on clear crisp moonlight nights when the atmosphere is not too loaded with moisture.
Which is interesting, for considering the traditional “best times” for seeing ghosts - as demonstrated copiously in folklore and the best Horror films (not in proven cases but always cited nonetheless), seems to be during a wild thunderstorm when it is lashing down with rain. Funny enough, good conditions for orbs and perhaps this is why they have been so widely accepted as evidence and largely unquestioned, they conform to a widely held belief...in doing so not only are they justified but also cement the foundations of that belief...it doesnt seem to matter that this belief is mostly erroneous.
demogirl Posted: Jul 9 2006, 08:07 AM
Unregistered
Yuo know me hun. I prefer my 35mm with true balck and white 400 speed film. Nothing beats it.
demogirl Posted: Jul 16 2006, 08:50 AM
Unregistered
i also would like to add aquestion to this subject.
With the 35mm camera is it really an orb or is it something natural?
Chris Posted: Jul 16 2006, 08:57 AM
Unregistered
what do you mean by orb ????
I dont believe that they are signs of spirits around.....but they may be some form of electrical activity that is a by product of the use of etheric energy
demogirl Posted: Jul 16 2006, 09:04 AM
Unregistered
What is etheric energy?
Chris Posted: Jul 16 2006, 09:19 AM
Unregistered
we are going back to basics here.
everything has an energy, an electrical field, the force of creation if you like.
energy cannot just simply fade away it remains to be transmuted into someting else...
for our purposes materialisations and kinetic happenings
demogirl Posted: Jul 16 2006, 09:28 AM
Unregistered
ok hun lets say that as we humans form a type of electric energy. You rubbing your feet in a very dry room on a caroet trick is that what you are talking about? Sorry the blond genes again.
Chris Posted: Jul 16 2006, 02:11 PM
Unregistered
errrrm no.....not in the slightest.
every living thing has an aura, an energy, a vitality, a spirit...
all of this energy interacts with everything else around forming a massive energy field, this is the etheric field, that white line that surrounds every living thing, the impermiable barrier that protects us. Over this the colours of the aura play......I've digressed.
this energy can be used by spirits to materialise an cause kinetic activity....often in a haunted ouse the occupants feel tired drawn and even ill...this is because their energy is being drained off, bit by bit.
demogirl Posted: Jul 16 2006, 02:44 PM
Unregistered
so in order for them to get the energy they need they take from the batteries and us as well. Thanks Chris
demogirl Posted: Jul 20 2006, 12:42 PM
Unregistered
But then again what the hell do i know. Right?
Chris Posted: Jul 22 2006, 12:27 PM
Unregistered
not only living energy, but AC, DC, magnetic flux especially, it is proposed, in araes where seismic activity (no matter how slight) is experienced.
energy is energy....
demogirl Posted: Jul 25 2006, 07:40 AM
Unregistered
Well now im outa energy. after reading all this.
Succubus Posted: Jan 8 2007, 12:04 PM
Member
Group: Staff
Posts: 72
Member No.: 9
Joined: 4-July 06
Energy is neither created nor destroyed, but neither is mass. energy can be converted to mass and vice versa. so maybe its spiritual energy that has converted itself into a mass capable of physically showing up on film.
wow.. i always have really weird ideas about how everything works.
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:10:15 [Permalink]
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| these are both beginnings of a couple threads on the site. but theres a lot of topics to choose from.. so you might have to go check it out and see if the subjects appeal to you. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:26:07 [Permalink]
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Oh dear...
succubus, my friend, there are some very hard-nosed skeptics here -- are you sure you want us in there....?
A great deal of that, if posted here would set these fora afire. In fact, most if not all of it already has.
Lessus think about it for a spell, and thanks for sharing.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:28:01 [Permalink]
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| oh im sure we want you.. its always nice to fire up a good controvercial conversation, whether you believe what you are saying or not.. we still like different views and people confirming or putting down everything we say |
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:29:37 [Permalink]
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| plus you guys will get a feel of a conversation with believers.. not just a whole bunch of skeptics with the same views |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:42:45 [Permalink]
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| Most of us have been involved with "believers" forums before. Generally, the word 'skeptic' is a dirty word to believers. Synonymous with 'cynic' and 'bad vibes.' Make sure you know what you're asking for before you ask. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 03/21/2007 07:43:19 |
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:46:17 [Permalink]
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| oh i know. trust me |
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succubus
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:47:31 [Permalink]
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| we need more hardasses |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 10:08:11 [Permalink]
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| I'm in as Gorgo. I don't promise to participate, but will try to take some time to look around. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 16:28:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Most of us have been involved with "believers" forums before. Generally, the word 'skeptic' is a dirty word to believers. Synonymous with 'cynic' and 'bad vibes.' Make sure you know what you're asking for before you ask.
And also synonmous with "buzz kill."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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we need skeptics
