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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
 Posted - 04/20/2007 : 12:38:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
An eternity of remorse and regret for rejecting the only one who could save you, all over some silly rebellious attitude towards, of all things, your creator.
So just give in and become a sychophant to the bully in order to save yourself from more torment, Bill? God makes man imperfect on purpose and then any person who doesn't suck up to him gets punished, how much more childishly sadistic can one get? God makes the snake, and makes the snake tempt Eve, then lays a punishment on humans forever, making God the most vindictive and unforgiving bastard ever. (He even punished the snake, despite the fact that the snake never had a choice to do other than he did.)
You want to spend eternity singing the praises of such a complete jackass, Bill? Be my guest. The "grace" coming from such a vile creature is something that I'd rather not touch me at all.quote:
The one who gave you life in the first place.
My parents gave me life, Bill.quote:
Sounds pretty foolish to me.
Same here. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 13:03:39 [Permalink]
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| removed by me for going offtopic |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 04/20/2007 16:00:50 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 13:31:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Creation of what?
All that exists.
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See, I can be a jerk too.
I won't debate this. But we all have our moments.
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The physical universe is not evidence for or against a deity.
But the physical creation is evidence for a creator.
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Assuming this is true,
It is.
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I congratulate you on your charity.
Thank you.
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But are you doing enough? I don't think you are.
Noted.
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So you better hope your god's grace is enough, because you certainly don't measure up in other aspects.
I would agree. Again, that is why I need a Savior. If I measured up to God's standard then I could make the case that I do not need a savior. But since I don't then I won't.
quote:
after all, I'm a just low life, evil, rebellious (according to you that is) atheist
By your own freewill.
quote:
who couldn't possibly stand in judgment over a god-fearing, forgiven christian.
That's right. But again, not because I am a better person then you, but because my shortcomings (sins) have been forgiven by a righteousness not of my own.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 14:04:02 [Permalink]
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| removed by me for going offtopic |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 04/20/2007 16:01:52 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 15:21:20 [Permalink]
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So, should we move this thread to the religion folder?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 16:00:21 [Permalink]
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| I apologize Kil and forum. I knew this was going off topic, but I couldn't help myself. I'll remove my last post and end it there. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 16:06:25 [Permalink]
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YO:
Adolf Hitler: (April 20, 1889 – April 30, 1945) was Chancellor of Germany from 1933, and Führer (Leader) of Germany from 1934 until his death.
Orwellingly Yurz Sez: Nowadays it's really hard for someone to
NOT "celebrate" this mass murderer's birthday. Houston! We have ANOTHER problem, just like the one at Virginia Tech, Columbine, Oklahoma City...and the shameful list goes on and on!
OY! |
"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
| Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 04/20/2007 16:08:04 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2007 : 01:11:56 [Permalink]
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Adolph Hitler is dead, as are his minions -- at least his original minions; many more Nazi scumbags seem to have cropped up over the decades.
Timothy McVey, that clever and stupid demolitions tinkerer, is dead.
Seung-Hui Cho too, is dead as are those Columbine shitheads whose names I don't remember nor care enough about to look up.
All of their victims in all of their innocence, they are dead as well.
None of them are coming back.
April 20 can mean anything you want it to mean, and I'll be damned if I'll let it mean some sort of remembrance, however incidental, to dead guys I whom I would not have liked in the first place, and would have probably shot myself, given what I know now and the opportunity.
I am now reading pathetic squeals about, "What if some of those people were legally carrying concealed; packing heat? Then they'd have dropped Cho before he could do much damage!"
What utter and ghastly nonsense! That would have most likely have increased the butcher's bill considerably, and those who spout that idiotic wheezing know nothing of firing a belly gun under pressure. You've got to be good to hit reliably with one at best of times, which means that you have to work at it. Doubtless some academics have the time and the interest to acquire the skill, but those are 'way in the minority.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2007 : 11:36:13 [Permalink]
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YO:
[quote]Originally posted by filthy
Adolph Hitler is dead, as are his minions -- at least his original minions; many more Nazi scumbags seem to have cropped up over the decades.
Orwellingly Yurz Sez: Adolph and his minions are dead. Yes. But some of the scumbags you refer to are still breathing, and are the ones who take "inspiration" from such malicious sociopaths as Der Fuhrer. (Umlaut over the 'u,' please)
Radically acting persons give others with the same tendencies, as well as those of opposite (yet radical) demeanor, reason to blow-up or put bullet holes in other human beings. Alas, it is up to our eyeballs we find ourselves in such "celebration" these days: Houston
Stockton, Yuba City, Virgina Tech, Columbine, Oklahoma City, Austin,
New York City, London, Madrid, Washington, D.C..............Baghdad.
Please add to the list the ones I've overlooked.
OY!
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
| Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 04/21/2007 11:59:49 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2007 : 11:59:42 [Permalink]
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filthy said:
quote:
What utter and ghastly nonsense! That would have most likely have increased the butcher's bill considerably, and those who spout that idiotic wheezing know nothing of firing a belly gun under pressure. You've got to be good to hit reliably with one at best of times, which means that you have to work at it. Doubtless some academics have the time and the interest to acquire the skill, but those are 'way in the minority.
I'd disagree that such a circumstance would have increased the toll. I can't say it would have lessened it either though. As you say, amatures under such pressure are at best worthless, and at worst a hazzard to all.
As far as I know there are no states that permit concealed carry in any school, with the exception of undercover or off duty police (who we hope have some training in the use of deadly force under pressure). In FL you cannot carry a firearm in school unless you are law enforcement.
But there are some things students could, in most circumstances, have on them legally while on campus, concealed carry permit or not, that could have reduced the death toll.
Mace combo CN/Pepper/Dye, for example, is a nice nonlethal tool that is guaranteed to stop anyone not dosed to the gills on lsd/pcp.
Some states allow the concealed carry of a ranged taser into places that they disallow firearms. A bit of practice with these things and you can be very accurate under 20 feet. And even if you miss, you won't kill a bystander.
For states that don't allow a stun gun that fires darts, you can get the handheld variety.
Add in some personal protection.
A nice collapsing baton can be your friend in close quarters too.
There are a lot of options for concealed carry that don't involve a firearm. I can almost guarantee you that Cho would have dropped, atleast for a few seconds, if someone had hit him in the face with a CN/pepper spray combo. Time enough for a determined individual to beat him down.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2007 : 21:51:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
So, should we move this thread to the religion folder?
I'll start a new one there because the "evil" theme in the media is getting tiring. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 02:55:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
filthy said:
quote:
What utter and ghastly nonsense! That would have most likely have increased the butcher's bill considerably, and those who spout that idiotic wheezing know nothing of firing a belly gun under pressure. You've got to be good to hit reliably with one at best of times, which means that you have to work at it. Doubtless some academics have the time and the interest to acquire the skill, but those are 'way in the minority.
I'd disagree that such a circumstance would have increased the toll. I can't say it would have lessened it either though. As you say, amatures under such pressure are at best worthless, and at worst a hazzard to all.
As far as I know there are no states that permit concealed carry in any school, with the exception of undercover or off duty police (who we hope have some training in the use of deadly force under pressure). In FL you cannot carry a firearm in school unless you are law enforcement.
But there are some things students could, in most circumstances, have on them legally while on campus, concealed carry permit or not, that could have reduced the death toll.
Mace combo CN/Pepper/Dye, for example, is a nice nonlethal tool that is guaranteed to stop anyone not dosed to the gills on lsd/pcp.
Some states allow the concealed carry of a ranged taser into places that they disallow firearms. A bit of practice with these things and you can be very accurate under 20 feet. And even if you miss, you won't kill a bystander.
For states that don't allow a stun gun that fires darts, you can get the handheld variety.
Add in some personal protection.
A nice collapsing baton can be your friend in close quarters too.
There are a lot of options for concealed carry that don't involve a firearm. I can almost guarantee you that Cho would have dropped, atleast for a few seconds, if someone had hit him in the face with a CN/pepper spray combo. Time enough for a determined individual to beat him down.
I'm pretty sure the firearms law in schools is federal as well as state. If it's not, it should be.
There are indeed a lot of alternatives. I used to carry a flare pistol in my big truck for just that reason, along with a "tire thumper." This last was a short, stout billy used to check the tires by whacking them with it. I wasn't likely to kill anybody with these, but I could certainly change some minds.
Dude, we must remember that these are students and their teachers, most (all?) utterly untrained and inexperienced in any sort of combat beyond childhood scuffles -- very few, aside from that Israeli professor, and my hat is off to him, could function rationally in the sort of panic situation that would ensue in a crowded classroom when the shooting starts. The noise in that enclosed space alone would intimidate most people and they would do exactly what they did; try and get some distance and/or cover between themselves and the gun. I'm convinced that another gun in untrained hands would have compounded the disaster.
As for pepper spray & such, it is my understanding that a fair number college girls carry it already. The problem is that you have to be pretty close to be effective with it, and again, these folks are not trained for that sort of thing. It would require rushing the gun, and how many can do that?
I've read that Cho's background check was less than rigorous, even for VA. There is the place to start; weed out the unbalanced to start with, and bust the illegal dealers, and you'll have fewer armed dingbats to contend with -- not a small undertaking, I'm afraid. Dingbats can be very cunning. And, as stated, our mental health system could stand a lot of improvement.
Armed security in the schools? That's an ugly thought. It could lead to a shooting set off by some student just looking suspicious and objecting to a warrent-less search. Or worse yet, being a smartass with the guard.
It's a highly complex problem, and it will take a wiser head than mine to come up with the solutions.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 04/22/2007 09:19:17 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 10:04:57 [Permalink]
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filthy said:
quote:
As for pepper spray & such, it is my understanding that a fair number college girls carry it already. The problem is that you have to be pretty close to be effective with it, and again, these folks are not trained for that sort of thing. It would require rushing the gun, and how many can do that?
A good pepper spray can reach 10-12 feet. They can deliver a nice fog of pepper too.
http://www.udap.com/defense.htm
Or a fog of CN/pepper/dye.
Surely some of the people Cho killed were within 10 feet of him. I recall atleast one instance of some students holding a door closed against Cho, that he managed to force open some. A fog of pepper/CN would have possibly ended his spree right there.
quote:
I've read that Cho's background check was less than rigorous, even for VA. There is the place to start; weed out the unbalanced to start with, and bust the illegal dealers, and you'll have fewer armed dingbats to contend with -- not a small undertaking, I'm afraid. Dingbats can be very cunning. And, as stated, our mental health system could stand a lot of improvement.
I agree. Enforecement of current laws is the key. Making dealers comply fully with the law, and eliminating as many illegal sellers as possible would go a long way. It wouldn't fix the problem, because of the wide availability of guns on the street, but it would be a start.
I'm all for rigorous background checks and laws that prevent certain individuals from owning firearms (felons, domestic abusers).
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 10:09:26 [Permalink]
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I should add that I am also in favor of laws that require people buying firearms to demonstrate competence in safety and use.
Some states have these.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 11:08:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I should add that I am also in favor of laws that require people buying firearms to demonstrate competence in safety and use.
Some states have these.
One would think that would be a minimum requirement to own a gun. And while we're at it, we should require that a driver's license comes with explicit instruction that it is unsafe to drive with one hand on the cell phone and the other hand holding the magazine you're reading. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Baghdad Tech Massacre
