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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2007 : 19:44:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by TG
He sounds reasonably rational, but the train jumps the tracks at this point:And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles.
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He correctly notes the ethical problems created by numerous biblical passages and somehow concludes that the solution is to "read our bibles". Isn't that the problem, rather than the solution?
Or am I missing the subtle message that if we "read our bibles" we'll realize how absurd some of it is and make rational decisions rather than blindly applying the draconian moral teachings of a culture long dead and gone?
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I'm sure you got it right the first time there. Jumping the tracks was a good metaphor.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 05/10/2007 19:45:14 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 19:46:26 [Permalink]
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Obama's just in the honeymoon phase. Best to see what's behind the facade before eating the apple. (Um, that would be Snow White's apple, BTW, not God's.  )
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 05/10/2007 19:47:19 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 08:16:09 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal wrote: There's no way, HM. This guy is campaigning to the believers. Do you really think he's going to say, "the Bible is often poorly interpreted, read it and be careful to interpret it correctly"? Obama's statement is the typical Bible thumper response, "all this bad stuff is human made, read God's words directly, God is love, yadda yadda."
I find the, "read the Bible statement" to be more like, well he almost got real, but he fell back on Dobson lite instead. |
I totally disagree with this assessment. Obama is campaigning to moderate believers and all other secularists (including atheists).
video of speech: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/faith/
full transcript: http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2006/06/obama_on_faith_and_politics_an.html
Clips from speech with my chosen highlights in bold:
Given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.
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Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all. |
Saying the underlining message of this speech was "Dobson lite" sorely underestimates the radicalism of the religious right. At least from what is said in this speech, Obama is clearly in favor of secular government. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 05/17/2007 08:17:17 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 11:19:30 [Permalink]
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And that, Marf, is what is known as a convincing argument.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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skeptic griggsy
Skeptic Friend
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 08:57:22 [Permalink]
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 I appreciate that Obama has a decent notion of religion as far as the social gospel goes, but we naturalists must make our ideas known to both parties! Hillary says her faith got her through marital problems. Well, I am for her but I have no faith and good things just happen to me all the time! I don't need the shepherd-voyeur. |
Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. Logic is the bane of theists.Religion is mythinformation. Reason saves, not a dead Galilean fanatic. |
| Edited by - skeptic griggsy on 06/06/2007 09:00:38 |
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TRACEYT.
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 14:33:10 [Permalink]
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| I would worry more about his self-revealed drug addiction...so, might have been rough times (we all have had them, donch'a know) but,really.. |
traceyt. |
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Obama: "I felt God's spirit beckoning me."
