|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 21:42:37 [Permalink]
|
Really, I was considering starting this thread in this folder. It thought it was a toss up but really, I should have known that with regulation issues I should have posted it here. Sorry about that.
I moved this thread to the politics folder because it has been about politics since around the second post.
Kil
|
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
 |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2007 : 22:39:47 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I asserted that there is an obligation to promote general welfare and one of the tools prescribed is the regulation of foreign trade. |
Wait, wait, wait. You're opposed to regulation of internal American trade because you think the free market provides a better alternative to government intrusion, yet you're for regulation of foreign trade to the point where you think it's okay for the Federal Government to dictate to Americans which foreigners they can buy stuff from? Does that sum up your position accurately?
|
For the most part, Yes. Little in life is 100%. |
Well, I fail to see how such a position is at all consistent. If the free market is allegedly able to keep Americans from undermining each other without governmental interference, then why is it that same free market is unable to protect Americans from outsiders? Shouldn't the market naturally move to punish those who attempt to take unfair advantage of others no matter their geographic location, and no matter their own governmental style? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 23:16:39 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Trish, to your first point; how long would medicine makers stay in business if their products harmed people? And to your second point; if one eats whole foods one does not need labeling. By the way, grain gluten was what the Chinese added melamine to to create a false positive for increased protein. |
Prior to cGMP there were manufacturers that had rodent feces showing up in their pills, inconsistent distribution of the effective drug throughout the pills, cross contamination of pills with other medications, etc. cGMP was instituted to correct this problem with the drug manufacturers.
http://www.fda.gov/oc/history/makinghistory/firstgmps.html
| In 1938, Congress mandated that new drugs be safe and that manufacturing methods, facilities, and controls be "adequate," in the wake of the Elixir Sulfanilamide crisis.4 The first set of interpretive questions designed to guide manufacturers in determining the adequacy of their manufacturing controls did not become part of the NDA process, however, until after Winthrop Chemical Company produced sulfathiazole tablets contaminated with Phenobarbital in 1940, which killed or injured over 300 people nationwide. |
As for the Gluten issue. I stated I have Celiac Sprue, which means I can not have gluten. The federal regulations that require food manufacturers to place the ingredients on packages means I have a better chance of avoiding wheat, rye, barley, and their derivatives that I can not have.
Additionally folks, Menu Foods is a Canadian company. I don't know what regulations Canada has for importing food fillers, but US regulations hardly apply here, except in the finished product. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
|
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 09:19:10 [Permalink]
|
Dave, different entities have different obligations and responsibilities. Without national sovereignty protected, the laws within a nation are useless, and one may become subject to outside laws that do not conform to agreed upon national standards.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 09:35:12 [Permalink]
|
Trish, interesting read, thanks. I did notice that aggressive enforcement of misunderstood government mandates was seen within the organization.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 11:03:00 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, different entities have different obligations and responsibilities. Without national sovereignty protected, the laws within a nation are useless, and one may become subject to outside laws that do not conform to agreed upon national standards.
|
When discussing food products or ingredients, or really anything that is imported, all the need be done is to let the country of origin know that we have standards, say, in the case of food products, that must be met for the import to be accepted. Plus we need to make sure they know that we will be watching. (Which means more and better inspections.) High tariffs will not solve the problem of impurities. That kind of regulation is useless if what you are after is safe imported food products that meet with our standards. If that drives their cost of production up, tough. That alone in a free market will help local manufacturers, by leveling the playing field.
A world economy does not mean giving up sovereignty.
I should point out that all of our domestic cars are better manufactured now then they once were because of competition from imports. The same can be said for electronics, in many cases. It wasn't high tariffs that made that happen, but flat out competition for better and more reasonably priced products. And while domestic auto manufacturing may have suffered, mostly due to stubbornness and a disconnect from what the consumer wanted them to produce, in the end, the consumer was the winner. I drive a Ford now. Twenty years ago I wouldn't touch a Ford with a dogs ass. I can buy American with confidence, and I have Japanese imports to thank for that.
We can force foreign importers to adhere to our standards through more effective regulations and a system that is better suited to deal with a world economy. In that way we give up nothing.
|
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 12:37:54 [Permalink]
|
When a state allows its own economic balance to be upset by an influx of foreign competition that undercut the economic base this presents a situation in which capital and resources are ceded to the foreign nation.
I would point out government involvement played a large part in the harming of the American auto industry; which had been a world standard.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 12:50:24 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I would point out government involvement played a large part in the harming of the American auto industry; which had been a world standard. |
Really?
Can you back that bold assumption up with some evidence? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 13:09:45 [Permalink]
|
Chrysler bailout
CAFE laws
Government protection of labor
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 18:29:39 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, different entities have different obligations and responsibilities. Without national sovereignty protected, the laws within a nation are useless, and one may become subject to outside laws that do not conform to agreed upon national standards. |
I fail to see how that is relevant to a discussion about foreign competition undermining American companies, which is what you said the Feds have an obligation to protect against. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 19:38:37 [Permalink]
|
Jerome:
I would point out government involvement played a large part in the harming of the American auto industry; which had been a world standard. |
A world standard until the Japanese imports we were introduced here and showed us that we were being buying crap from Detroit. I can't help you Jerome if you can't see that it was competition from imports that forced American auto makers to make a better product.
Saved lots of jobs and every cent was paid back.
Applies to imports too.
Jerome:
Government protection of labor. |
Please explain.
And while we're at it, nice sidestep to avoid replying to what I actually said in my post. Sorry I even brought up cars…
|
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 21:54:37 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Trish, interesting read, thanks. I did notice that aggressive enforcement of misunderstood government mandates was seen within the organization. |
Yes, and that does happen. However, the vast improvements in the pharmaceutical industry since the enactment of cGMP has improved the medications that you and I take today. I like knowing that the levothyroxine I take today have 200mcg per pill of active ingredient. I'm not going to overdose on my medication because a manufacturer has poorly mixed the ingredients.
From the Levothyroxine MSDS:
Effects of overexposure Nervousness, sweating, hyperhidrosis, insomnia, tachycardia, blood pressure variation and loss of weight after ingestion. |
There are other overdose effects listed on the warning sheet issued by the pharmacy, but you can look the MSDS up on the internet, so I went with MSDS. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
|
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 22:06:21 [Permalink]
|
Kil said "A world economy does not mean giving up sovereignty."
Unwillingness to secure boarders does remove sovereignty. Without boarders there is no nation. All this to the benefit of a few at the detriment of the many. You must learn about the past plight of Rome. History does repeat.
A world economy necessitates eventual loss of the sovereign nation state.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Fakery Turns Fatal: China...
