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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 06/06/2007 : 20:56:47
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....
As much as it sickens me to do so, I have to defend the Phelps clan for a brief moment.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19080064/
A member of the Kansas group that has drawn criticism for protesting at soldiers' funerals has been arrested for letting her 10-year-old son stomp on a U.S. flag during a demonstration. She promised Wednesday to challenge the state's flag desecration law in court.
Shirley Phelps-Roper, 49, will be charged with flag mutilation, disturbing the peace and contributing to the delinquency of a minor, Sarpy County Attorney Lee Polikov said Wednesday.
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The Phelps clan are a demented, bigoted, hatefilled bunch of lowlife scum. That is the best I can say about them.
But they do, along with everyone else, have the right to piss on the US flag if they want to.
I've been hoping that these anti-flag desecration laws passed by some states would get a legal challenge, and it looks like Nebraska's will. Its just unfortunate that I have to take the side of a Phelps. I hope they hand Nebraska their figurative ass in federal court.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 22:39:46 [Permalink]
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A flag is a symbol. If you have no right to effect a symbol, you have no right to speech.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 23:56:46 [Permalink]
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No, actually, Dude, pissing on the flag in public would violate laws that are unrelated to free expression. There are laws against what is usually referered to a "creating a public nuisance," or urinating in public. But I agree otherwise. Hang the bastards high, but not for peaceful public protest.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/07/2007 : 00:56:31 [Permalink]
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Agreein' with Dude & all, and couldn't have said it better.
This should be interesting. Phelps-Roper is a nasty piece of work, but she is nothing if not a scrapper.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/07/2007 00:57:50 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 07:07:26 [Permalink]
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I never thought I'd feel ambivalence about the actions of a member of the Phelps Clan.
I would be lying if I said that I thought Shirley Phelps-Roper's action was unexpected.
I would be lying if I said that I thought the charge of flag mutilation was unexpected.
Yet, I'm surprised to find myself wishing she does well in court.
I wonder if they will accept legal help from ACLU? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 06/07/2007 07:08:32 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 07:59:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I never thought I'd feel ambivalence about the actions of a member of the Phelps Clan.
I would be lying if I said that I thought Shirley Phelps-Roper's action was unexpected.
I would be lying if I said that I thought the charge of flag mutilation was unexpected.
Yet, I'm surprised to find myself wishing she does well in court.
I wonder if they will accept legal help from ACLU?
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I could be mistaken, but I think they've already had assistance from the ACLU. It might have been when they scumbagged that first funeral, a murdered gay guy. Or one not long after it.
I chew my tongue and spit bitter blood, but I too wish her success -- this time she's finally doing something right.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 08:14:09 [Permalink]
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| I chew my tongue and spit bitter blood, but I too wish her success -- this time she's finally doing something right. |
As much as it leaves a foul taste in my brain, I concur. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 12:37:42 [Permalink]
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I also must agree, I hope the stinking bag of shit wins her case. blech!
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
| Edited by - furshur on 06/07/2007 12:38:15 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 15:56:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I never thought I'd feel ambivalence about the actions of a member of the Phelps Clan.
I would be lying if I said that I thought Shirley Phelps-Roper's action was unexpected.
I would be lying if I said that I thought the charge of flag mutilation was unexpected.
Yet, I'm surprised to find myself wishing she does well in court.
I wonder if they will accept legal help from ACLU?
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I could be mistaken, but I think they've already had assistance from the ACLU. It might have been when they scumbagged that first funeral, a murdered gay guy. Or one not long after it.
I chew my tongue and spit bitter blood, but I too wish her success -- this time she's finally doing something right.
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The guy's name was Matthew Shepard and the used the ACLU to try to erect a statue in the boy's hometown declaring that he entered hell on the date of his death.
The community opted to remove religious symbology from the park so that they would not have to allow the statue. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 19:23:37 [Permalink]
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| Yes, sometimes the price of freedom is high. But worth it. *sigh* |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 21:58:38 [Permalink]
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For anyone who wishes to drown in liberalism, go check out the movie The American President, written by some of the same people who brought us the show The West Wing. In the movie, a big speech includes this:America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms.
Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free. Makes my idealism go all a-twitter with renewed vigor. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 05:37:39 [Permalink]
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| Dave, yeah, I've seen that movie a few times, and that speech always makes me all happy. And then I remember reality. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 07:35:04 [Permalink]
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| I would never want anyone to go to jail or be fined for burning, urinating etc. on the US flag, but it still makes my blood boil when I see it. I want to see the laws changed in Nebraska but I hate that this is how it may happen. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 08:09:08 [Permalink]
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I think everyone ought to pick one day, take the day off, and spend it in various ways desecrating this "sacred" piece of cloth so we can all get over it.
If the symbol meant anything, people like George Bush and most of his predecessors have turned it into something foul anyway. It's a symbol of empire, not of any of the hollow fine-sounding things you learned in kindergarten. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 08:41:40 [Permalink]
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Robb wrote: | [I would never want anyone to go to jail or be fined for burning, urinating etc. on the US flag, but it still makes my blood boil when I see it. I want to see the laws changed in Nebraska but I hate that this is how it may happen. |
Burning American flags always makes me curious as to why the person is burning it. When I find out why, my next response has typically been to roll my eyes.
It's interested what different people find offensive, and to what degree they find it offensive. My mom finds it offensive when people where clothing made out of the American flag, or with the flag on it, as if that is a novelty or fashion statement. My father-in-law is offended by people who put American flags on their cars and then let them get all ragged and faded. Me, I don't care. Symbols don't have much impact on me. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 09:26:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Robb wrote: | [I would never want anyone to go to jail or be fined for burning, urinating etc. on the US flag, but it still makes my blood boil when I see it. I want to see the laws changed in Nebraska but I hate that this is how it may happen. |
Burning American flags always makes me curious as to why the person is burning it. When I find out why, my next response has typically been to roll my eyes.
It's interested what different people find offensive, and to what degree they find it offensive. My mom finds it offensive when people where clothing made out of the American flag, or with the flag on it, as if that is a novelty or fashion statement. My father-in-law is offended by people who put American flags on their cars and then let them get all ragged and faded. Me, I don't care. Symbols don't have much impact on me.
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I guess what gets me is that most people will complain about what the US is doing wrong and there is plenty of things this country does I do not agree with. But I think we all need to remember what this country does right. Such as this country has given me the freedom and opportunity to accompish things I think are important. I can generally do, say or believe whatever I want with no retribution from the government. Most people in this world do not have the freedom, means or time to discuss things on SFN.
I guess when I see the flag I do think primarily of the good things about this country and the ideals we strive for. I think it is wise for all of us to reflect on the good as well as the bad that the US does. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Defending Phelps
