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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2007 : 20:15:29
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What do you think about governments selling roads to private corporations as toll roads for profit.
www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=4765129
"Under the lease, Spanish-Australian consortium Cintra-Macquarie would pay the state $3.8 billion up front and be responsible for operating and maintaining the highway. It would get to keep the toll revenue it collects."
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 11:24:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
What do you think about governments selling roads to private corporations as toll roads for profit.
www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=4765129
"Under the lease, Spanish-Australian consortium Cintra-Macquarie would pay the state $3.8 billion up front and be responsible for operating and maintaining the highway. It would get to keep the toll revenue it collects." |
I think it's a horrible idea. Privatizing toll roads can cause a horrible chain reaction of economic troubles.
By the way, JEROME DA GNOME, why did you put this in the Conspiracy Theories folder? Wouldn't this belong somewhere else, like Politics? |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 11:33:49 [Permalink]
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| Yeah, I think this is a miserable idea. For all the wonders of the free market and whatnot, there are some things best left in the hands of the government and not the private sector. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 11:36:04 [Permalink]
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I put it in conspiracy because it not widely publicized and is being done at an expanding rate around the country.
Tax payer roads (public property) are sold for the purpose of making a profit off the use of public property by the public.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 15:27:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I put it in conspiracy because it not widely publicized and is being done at an expanding rate around the country.
Tax payer roads (public property) are sold for the purpose of making a profit off the use of public property by the public. |
Your assertion that selling roads isn't "widely publicized" is weak, considering that it has gotten about as much attention as one should expect from our media outlets. New Jersey's plan to sell or lease things like the NJ Turnpike has gotten plenty of attention. And NPR featured a story on it not long ago.
And while we might agree that it's a bad idea, I don't think it's a conspiracy. It should probably go under politics, as B10 noted... |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 15:53:40 [Permalink]
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Is this only one more step towards ending national sovereignty and creating corporate government.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 19:28:16 [Permalink]
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When the citizens assets are sold off to foreign corporations for personal profit, sovereignty will be hard to hold. Once foreign corporations have control of a large majority of state and federal highways, the citizen will need to rely outside of his nation to move about his nation.
The highway system is vital for both defense and commerce. With control of the transportation system in the hands of foreign entities sovereignty has been neutered.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 19:48:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I put it in conspiracy because it not widely publicized and is being done at an expanding rate around the country. |
According to the article you linked to, the first public road lease occured in 2005, and the lease arrangement discussed in the article would have been the second time it had occured, a 100% increase in a year - up to last year. How much more has it increased since then?!| Tax payer roads (public property) are sold for the purpose of making a profit off the use of public property by the public. |
How much difference does it being a lease and not a sale make? Especially in light of the fact that pulicly-owned lands are rented for private use - including profit -all the time. Cattle grazing, oil and mineral exploitation, rock concerts... you name it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 19:54:48 [Permalink]
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Dave, 75 year and 100 year leases are de facto sales.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 20:28:48 [Permalink]
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Indiana
Texas
Illinois
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
Virginia
Delaware
California
Wisconsin
New York
Colorado
Florida
These states are or have publicly floated the idea of long term leasing of public highways.
http://jtf.janes.com/public/jtf/roads.shtml
Here is a link that shows its a worldwide phenomenon.
In fact the Council of State Governments proposes leasing state highways as a way to relieve financial stress.
www.csgeast.org/page.asp?id=weeklytrans46
States have several options for creating such a balanced financial framework according to the NGA:
• Tax-based strategies for increasing revenues.
• Toll and road-pricing schemes to raise revenues.
• Debt financing to reduce project development costs.
• Asset leases to raise revenues.
• Shifting transportation finance responsibilities to local governments.
• Strategies to reduce long-term growth in highway travel demand.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 20:29:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, 75 year and 100 year leases are de facto sales.
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No, they aren't.
At the end of the lease, they don't get the property.
Talk to Cuba about that one. They're really looking forward to getting Gitmo back. Another lease that we've released would be the Canal Zone.
That they are long term isn't surprizing. The next question you have to ask (and obviously, you didn't) is what are the terms of the lease and how is it broken.
I think we agree that this is a monumental cluster fuck by the government by privatizing the roads, but until I can examine the lease and it's terms I cannot really comment on how bad it truely is. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 20:34:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Indiana
Texas
Illinois
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
Virginia
Delaware
California
Wisconsin
New York
Colorado
Florida
These states are or have publicly floated the idea of long term leasing of public highways.
http://jtf.janes.com/public/jtf/roads.shtml
Here is a link that shows its a worldwide phenomenon.
In fact the Council of State Governments proposes leasing state highways as a way to relieve financial stress.
www.csgeast.org/page.asp?id=weeklytrans46
States have several options for creating such a balanced financial framework according to the NGA:
• Tax-based strategies for increasing revenues.
• Toll and road-pricing schemes to raise revenues.
• Debt financing to reduce project development costs.
• Asset leases to raise revenues.
• Shifting transportation finance responsibilities to local governments.
• Strategies to reduce long-term growth in highway travel demand.
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And here in Illinois, that idea was shot down in flames as well as the ill concieved scheme of selling off the Illinois lottery to private ownership. Blagoivich has been trying to plug a $2 billion hole in the budget. He's gotten desperate because he doesn't want to raise taxes or cut spending for his new entitlement programs which I would like to kick his butt for implementing. When you have a 500 million dollar budget hole, you don't propose and pass comprehensive health insurance for all Illinois children regardless of economic background. It causes a bigger hole. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 20:48:16 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer, the original lease was written with Columbia but rejected. Then Panama revolted from Columbia with the help of an American warship. The Panamanian treaty with America was forever and gave America full sovereign rights. Carter wrote a new treaty to give the canal zone to Panama in 1999.
The Cuban government currently considers the American base in Cuba illegal based on the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.
Yes, by these examples you cited, 100 year leases are de facto sales.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 20:54:14 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer, great to hear the people are standing up. But, has not Chicago leased long term a toll road to a foreign private corporation?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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SELLING ROADS FOR PROFIT
