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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 06/19/2007 : 04:06:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, Websters is free online. |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 06:35:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Originally posted by leoofno
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
How does hard rock sediment form curves without being broken over millions of years?
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Not sure what you mean by this.
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I believe Jerome is referring to an orogeny event such as the one in Eastern US Application mountains (especially more towards the south), where beds of sedimentary rock take on a wave like appearance.
Obviously, if you take a small to medium boulder and put force on it, it will break before it appears to bend. But there are significant differences between a small boulder and a bed of sedimentary rock. First off, the bed is a lot bigger. An analogy for this is a 1 foot piece of steel and a 100 foot piece. While the 1 foot piece won't seem to be bendable, just picking up one of end of the 100 foot piece will show it bends quite easily. This is because there is simply more material that is bending by the same amount. The same applies to a bed of sedimentary rock.
The second difference is that with a rock layer, pressure is applied over a very long time. This gradual change helps shape the rock, rather than an abrupt force.
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Oh. I thought he was still on about the Grand Canyon where the sedimentary layers are pretty flat. I guess he thinks rocks can't fold without breaking, so they must have been folded while they were still loose sediments. Like after the flood.
In addition to what you pointed out, the rocks being folded are typically buried miles deep, in a high temperature and pressure environment. Materials behave much differently there than they do at the surface.
Places that we know experienced massive floods of near Biblical proportions (like that Scablands area in the Northwest) produce features nothing like the Grand Canyon. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 06:58:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I am not here to battle. I have no need to best another's argument. |
Yet you refuse almost always to concede and admit you were wrong and/or mistaken when we show you to be wrong. And then you write something like this.
Don't you realise how insulting it is? 
You write stuff like "Thinking is fun, try it once or twice." and then you have the gall to call on others being insulting. You have had the opportunity to take the high road many times, but didn't. You have yet to earn the tiniest bit of respect. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 22:59:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by leoofno
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
How does hard rock sediment form curves without being broken over millions of years?
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Not sure what you mean by this. All rocks weather when exposed to the elements. Weathering is the breaking down of rock into smaller bits that can then be moved away by erosion. For hard rocks, weathering can take a long time. For unconsolidated volcanic ash, which is already broken up, it can happen quite rapidly, as in the case of MSH.
The Grand Canyon meanders because the land was originally flat, and rivers on flat land meander (like the Mississippi in Louisiana). Millions of years ago the land lifted up and the meandering river eroded into the rock, becoming "entrenched" and preserving its shape. Incidentally, I don't think this shape would be expected to develop from any kind of a catastrophic flood.
I hope that comes close to answering your question.
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I think he might be referring to the folding in sedimentary layers noted in areas where earthquakes occur. Like this.
[Edited to fix link - Dave W.] |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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| Edited by - Trish on 06/19/2007 23:00:25 |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 00:35:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by leoofno
Places that we know experienced massive floods of near Biblical proportions (like that Scablands area in the Northwest) produce features nothing like the Grand Canyon.
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The Missoula Floods are one the most fascinating things in geology and the story of J Harlen Bretz illustrates how scientific orhtodoxy is succesfully challenged. Many of the flood features were not initially recognized as such because their dimensions were a couple of orders of magnitudes larger than what was usually seen. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 01:19:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
Originally posted by leoofno
Places that we know experienced massive floods of near Biblical proportions (like that Scablands area in the Northwest) produce features nothing like the Grand Canyon.
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The Missoula Floods are one the most fascinating things in geology and the story of J Harlen Bretz illustrates how scientific orhtodoxy is succesfully challenged. Many of the flood features were not initially recognized as such because their dimensions were a couple of orders of magnitudes larger than what was usually seen.
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Yup, that was a REAL flood, of "Biblical" enough proportions for anyone's tastes: | The peak flow of the largest floods is estimated to be 40 to 60 cubic kilometers per hour (9.5 to 15 cubic miles per hour). |
(I'm not accustomed "cubic miles per hour"! I prefer the linear kind.) And to think, there were people there to see it.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Mt St Helens/geological dating/creationism
