|
|
|
Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2007 : 13:49:12 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by @tomic
Good points Chippewa.
Can we at least agree that many studies have shown that many heterosexual parents are unfit so we should leave all of our children with the homosexual couples until they're determined to be unfit as well?
@
|
What is an unfit parent and who determines that? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
 |
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
|
|
Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 14:01:11 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by @tomic
Good points Chippewa.
Can we at least agree that many studies have shown that many heterosexual parents are unfit so we should leave all of our children with the homosexual couples until they're determined to be unfit as well?
@
|
What is an unfit parent and who determines that?
|
Then please explain before I fall off. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 14:20:06 [Permalink]
|
Why do we need to do any studies at all? To me, it seems ridiculous to even attempt to compare the types of families when it's really individuals that are fit or unfit. I don't think the sort of question that began this topic even needs to be asked. The people asking the question should, in my opinion, begin by explaining why they think there's a need. That could be a really embarrassing moment.
@
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 14:42:06 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by @tomic
Why do we need to do any studies at all? To me, it seems ridiculous to even attempt to compare the types of families when it's really individuals that are fit or unfit. I don't think the sort of question that began this topic even needs to be asked. The people asking the question should, in my opinion, begin by explaining why they think there's a need. That could be a really embarrassing moment.
@
|
The need is the same as studies on single parent and hetrosexual parent homes. To see if there are anything the child lacks from this type of home environment. If there is then maybe there are things homosexual homes can do differently.
Also, I have seen studies on how flies land on the ceiling. Some do studies to make a name for themselves or to bring in research dollars. Of course there are some that are trying to prove that a homosexual home is unfit but not all. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 14:52:21 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
[quote]Really, who made a statement that homosexuals were not good parents? That untrue claim was made with no evidence, as such it should be retracted. |
No such claim was made by me. Again: People sometimes unconsciously assume that "if not A then B". i.e. Lack of studies to prove that homosexuals as parents are as good as heterosexuals, does not mean that homosexual parents are not as good as heterosexuals.
I can't help it if you are not capable of critical thinking. 
|
If you read the posts before you came to your "sense" of fallacy, you would have noticed that the talk was the validity of a study. There was no talk of the ability of homosexuals to raise children.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 15:11:37 [Permalink]
|
| The need is the same as studies on single parent and hetrosexual parent homes. To see if there are anything the child lacks from this type of home environment. If there is then maybe there are things homosexual homes can do differently. |
The problem is that you can have a completely normal home and end up with a screwed up kid or you can have what appears to be a dysfunctional home that produces the best kids the world has ever seen. Once we figure that out maybe we can start deciding who should and who shouldn't be parents.
For now maybe we should stick with watching out for obvious abuse and folowing up on it. Unfortunately our society does a crappy job at something you'd think would be simple. Why do abusive parents get second, third or fourth chances?
@
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 15:44:20 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by @tomic
| The need is the same as studies on single parent and hetrosexual parent homes. To see if there are anything the child lacks from this type of home environment. If there is then maybe there are things homosexual homes can do differently. |
The problem is that you can have a completely normal home and end up with a screwed up kid or you can have what appears to be a dysfunctional home that produces the best kids the world has ever seen. Once we figure that out maybe we can start deciding who should and who shouldn't be parents.
For now maybe we should stick with watching out for obvious abuse and folowing up on it. Unfortunately our society does a crappy job at something you'd think would be simple. Why do abusive parents get second, third or fourth chances?
@
|
The problem becomes what does the State do with the children taken away. There are many problems with the foster parent system currently in place; sometimes with even worse abuse.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 15:47:08 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME(To: Chip): If you read the posts before you came to your "sense" of fallacy, you would have noticed that the talk was the validity of a study.
There was no talk of the ability of homosexuals to raise children. |
Originally posted by leoofno
The American Psychiatric Association has this to say:
"Numerous studies have shown that the children of gay parents are as likely to be healthy and well adjusted as children raised in heterosexual households. Children raised in gay or lesbian households do not show any greater incidence of homosexuality or gender identity issues than other children."( http://www.healthyminds.org/glbissues.cfm )(Bolding mine)
I say its a non-issue.
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Not a large data set or time range for that pronouncement.
To the initial point, its better than no parents. There is no ideal. |
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Halfmooner, in case you did not know, homosexuals raising children is currently a small group (although increasing). Until recent times homosexuals raising children was almost nil. |
Originally posted by marfknox
Much to my own displeasure, I must agree with Jerome when he says: "Not a large data set or time range for that pronouncement." |
Originally posted by Chippewa
People sometimes unconsciously assume that "if not A then B". i.e. Lack of studies to prove that homosexuals as parents are as good as heterosexuals, does not mean that homosexual parents are not as good as heterosexuals. |
(Notice that this observation does not address actual studies but rather the assumption that lack of data implies an opposite.)
Originally posted by @tomic
Why do we need to do any studies at all? To me, it seems ridiculous to even attempt to compare the types of families when it's really individuals that are fit or unfit. I don't think the sort of question that began this topic even needs to be asked... |
(Good point!)
I think that sums it up. There was some "talk" of this subject.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
There was no talk of the ability of homosexuals to raise children. |
Hope that helps. 
|
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 16:00:26 [Permalink]
|
| (Notice that this observation does not address actual studies but rather the assumption that lack of data implies an opposite.) |
Chippewa, so you admit your assumption and your sense was based on this assumption. Thanks!
 |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 16:29:26 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by @tomic
Does anyone have any idea what a social issue is doing in the Religion forum? I am moving it because I don't think this is, or should be, a religion issue.
@
|
sorry @tomic, my fault! |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
|
|
|
Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 16:46:38 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Chippewa, so you admit your assumption and your sense was based on this assumption. Thanks! |
Not quite Mr. Troll. In actuality, I surmise that there might be a tacit assumption or implication created by your observation of a lack of studies.
Also, your chiding use of the word "admit" implies an error that does not actually occur. 
And now, Jerome will either ignore this post and move on, or he....can...not......resist....an...obsessive...t-e-m-p-t-a-t-i-o-n….to answer every trivial comment.
|
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
|
|
|
TRACEYT.
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 17:40:11 [Permalink]
|
| A pox on ye! |
traceyt. |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 18:19:34 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Chippewa, so you admit your assumption and your sense was based on this assumption. Thanks! |
Not quite Mr. Troll. In actuality, I surmise that there might be a tacit assumption or implication created by your observation of a lack of studies.
Also, your chiding use of the word "admit" implies an error that does not actually occur.
And now, Jerome will either ignore this post and move on, or he....can...not......resist....an...obsessive...t-e-m-p-t-a-t-i-o-n….to answer every trivial comment.
|
If you find it trivial to attempt to smear with another poster with an implied accusation of discrimination you are a moron. Is this how you get along in the real world. When you disagree you name call. Silly child.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 18:23:02 [Permalink]
|
Chippewa, the silliest thing is that even after I stated that I thought it was O.K. for homosexuals to adopt in the same post I questioned the studies validity, you attempted your child like antics.
Debate tactics from primary school, and a misrepresentation of my views.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
 |
|
Homosexual Adoption
