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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 07/04/2007 : 21:58:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So, accelerating to avoid an accident beyond the limit thus breaking the law compromises safety? |
It's hard to tell: your sentence compromises English grammar. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 09:45:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So, accelerating to avoid an accident beyond the limit thus breaking the law compromises safety? |
It's hard to tell: your sentence compromises English grammar.
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If one is traveling the highway in a car, and one accelerates the speed of the car beyond the posted speed limit (thus breaking the law) to avoid and accident, is this person compromising safety?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 16:11:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If one is traveling the highway in a car, and one accelerates the speed of the car beyond the posted speed limit (thus breaking the law) to avoid and accident, is this person compromising safety?
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Can you illustrate the problem by descrbing a situation in which this will be the only viable option? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 16:49:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Valiant Dancer said:
| The citizen's safety is comprimised only by their own unwillingness to obey posted speed laws. |
So, accelerating to avoid an accident beyond the limit thus breaking the law compromises safety?
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Nice red herring. Now respond to the point i posited. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:48:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Valiant Dancer said:
| The citizen's safety is comprimised only by their own unwillingness to obey posted speed laws. |
So, accelerating to avoid an accident beyond the limit thus breaking the law compromises safety?
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Nice red herring. Now respond to the point i posited.
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Your statement assumes that the posted speed limits are always the correct maximum speed for safety. Do you really think this?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:55:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If one is traveling the highway in a car, and one accelerates the speed of the car beyond the posted speed limit (thus breaking the law) to avoid and accident, is this person compromising safety?
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Can you illustrate the problem by descrbing a situation in which this will be the only viable option?
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You are driving on the highway in the passing lane.
There is no shoulder on your left.
There is a car behind you.
There is an eighteen wheeler on your right.
The eighteen wheeler moves into your lane because the car in front of him has burst a tire.
I would accelerate beyond the danger.
Yes, these types of circumstances happen alot on the Virgina roads that I drive.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 20:16:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Valiant Dancer said:
| The citizen's safety is comprimised only by their own unwillingness to obey posted speed laws. |
So, accelerating to avoid an accident beyond the limit thus breaking the law compromises safety?
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Nice red herring. Now respond to the point i posited.
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Your statement assumes that the posted speed limits are always the correct maximum speed for safety. Do you really think this?
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No, my statement assumes that safety is a relative term concerning vehicles which are traveling at similar rates of speed. The willingness of the populace to submit to those limits is a problem of enforcement, not speeding up the rest of traffic to cater to scofflaws.
The lower the rate of speed, the lower the incidence of serious injury in case of a wreck. NTSA data bears this out with most classes of vehicles. Size does matter, but low rates of speed and following other driving laws such as the prohibition against tailgating and driving without distractions (cell phones, putting on makeup, eating, etc) also help in that manner.
Your example that you are trying to justify with Dr. Mabuse concerns emergency driving, not everyday operation of a motor vechile. And also something that the police would take into account when writing tickets. The statement still stands that by operating your vechile at a reasonable rate speed within tolerances for the posted speed limits reduce the incidence of accidents. "Too slow" speed limits are the entitlement cry of the rabid speeder. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 20:17:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If one is traveling the highway in a car, and one accelerates the speed of the car beyond the posted speed limit (thus breaking the law) to avoid and accident, is this person compromising safety?
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Can you illustrate the problem by descrbing a situation in which this will be the only viable option?
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You are driving on the highway in the passing lane.
There is no shoulder on your left.
There is a car behind you.
There is an eighteen wheeler on your right.
The eighteen wheeler moves into your lane because the car in front of him has burst a tire.
I would accelerate beyond the danger.
Yes, these types of circumstances happen alot on the Virgina roads that I drive.
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Why are you intentionally driving in the truck's blind spot? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 20:42:14 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer said:
| Why are you intentionally driving in the truck's blind spot? |
Passing in the passing lane.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 20:58:08 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer said:
No, my statement assumes that safety is a relative term concerning vehicles which are traveling at similar rates of speed. The willingness of the populace to submit to those limits is a problem of enforcement, not speeding up the rest of traffic to cater to scofflaws.
The lower the rate of speed, the lower the incidence of serious injury in case of a wreck. NTSA data bears this out with most classes of vehicles. Size does matter, but low rates of speed and following other driving laws such as the prohibition against tailgating and driving without distractions (cell phones, putting on makeup, eating, etc) also help in that manner.
Your example that you are trying to justify with Dr. Mabuse concerns emergency driving, not everyday operation of a motor vechile. And also something that the police would take into account when writing tickets. The statement still stands that by operating your vechile at a reasonable rate speed within tolerances for the posted speed limits reduce the incidence of accidents. "Too slow" speed limits are the entitlement cry of the rabid speeder. |
Based on what you are saying if everyone was doing 90mph that would be safe or if everyone was doing 10mph that would be equally safe.
According to this reasoning based on NTSA data all speed limits should be 10mph.
Ahh, but facts bear out my reasoning as several road have increased the limit around my area and lo' and behold accident rates went down. Speed does not cause accidents, the most common accident I see during my many hours of driving are the people not driving with the flow of traffic creating a "wolf pack" in which just one mistake by one driver causes many to have an accident.
When most are "breaking" the law the law is defunct. In fact those in this circumstance that follow the law are making the roads more dangerous. I have police friends and they to a man, tell me that they drive 15 mph over the limit because they do not want to create an unsafe condition as a "wolf pack" will be created.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 22:54:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Based on what you are saying if everyone was doing 90mph that would be safe or if everyone was doing 10mph that would be equally safe. |
Wow, how you get that from "The lower the rate of speed, the lower the incidence of serious injury in case of a wreck" has got to be an amazing piece of rationalization. Care to share it?| According to this reasoning based on NTSA data all speed limits should be 10mph. |
Oooooo, there's another one!| Ahh, but facts bear out my reasoning as several road have increased the limit around my area and lo' and behold accident rates went down. |
Provide evidence. I'm in the same area, after all. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 23:11:59 [Permalink]
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"The citizen's safety is comprimised only by their own unwillingness to obey posted speed laws"
"my statement assumes that safety is a relative term concerning vehicles which are traveling at similar rates of speed."
Dave, help me discern this. The second quote is the explanation for the first.
My quote: "Based on what you are saying if everyone was doing 90mph that would be safe or if everyone was doing 10mph that would be equally safe."
I was trying to correlate the statement and explanation.
---"The lower the rate of speed, the lower the incidence of serious injury in case of a wreck."
It certainly then makes sense to reduce all limits to 10mph if the goal is safety.
---MD route 50 in PG county is the example I enjoy the most. When they raised the limit to 65mph, all hell broke loose in the papers that there would be dead bodies all over the highway. Opps, accident rates went down. My precursory look could not find the stats I will look again latter.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:30:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
---"The lower the rate of speed, the lower the incidence of serious injury in case of a wreck."
It certainly then makes sense to reduce all limits to 10mph if the goal is safety. |
If the only goal is safety, then what makes sense is banning personally-owned vehicles altogether. But safety is never the only goal, it has to be balanced against personal freedom and the limits on public transportation funding. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:56:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
---"The lower the rate of speed, the lower the incidence of serious injury in case of a wreck."
It certainly then makes sense to reduce all limits to 10mph if the goal is safety. |
If the only goal is safety, then what makes sense is banning personally-owned vehicles altogether. But safety is never the only goal, it has to be balanced against personal freedom and the limits on public transportation funding.
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I agree, the point I am trying making is that the highway speed limits are not used for safety despite this claim. They are being use as a revenue source at the expense of safety.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 10:14:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I agree, the point I am trying making is that the highway speed limits are not used for safety despite this claim. They are being use as a revenue source at the expense of safety. |
You're going to have a long road ahead making that argument stick. Especially in light of the insanely curvy sections of the Outer Loop between the bridge and the Mormon Temple, upon which going 55 can be pretty scary if you don't have a performance suspension. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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