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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2007 : 13:49:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by dv82matt
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I do not serve others to make me happy. It is a byproduct. When I made the decision to no longer serve myself first, I did not think that this in it self would cause happiness. |
You're fooling yourself if you think that positive reinforcement doesn't affect why you do things.
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By your statement it seems you think man nothing more than an animal that is manipulated by stimuli. I disagree with this assessment of man. We are both looking at this question from a different starting point, I am not sure you will understand what I think based on this. Although I do understand your reasoning, as I once thought the same of the human condition.
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You sit down at a resturant and order a thick steak done just so, covered with fresh mushrooms sauteed with vidalia onions, a twice-baked potato, and a ration of snap beans, and you, with anticipation-spit running down your chin are trying to tell me that man is not an animal that responds to stimuli, just like any other? Pul-leese!
Doing good is nice in that it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, but would you share that steak with a down & out crackhead waiting outside? Or just give him your scraps? Or would you invite him to your table and order him a whole steak for himself?
Or would you, upon seeing the crackhead, not go into the resturant at all but head for Mickey D's up the street and eat crap to avoid him?
Don't tell me that we don't have a knee-jerk respose to stimuli; we most certainly do, every day and all day.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 14:03:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
By your statement it seems you think man nothing more than an animal that is manipulated by stimuli. I disagree with this assessment of man. |
You sit down at a resturant and order a thick steak done just so, covered with fresh mushrooms sauteed with vidalia onions, a twice-baked potato, and a ration of snap beans, and you, with anticipation-spit running down your chin are trying to tell me that man is not an animal that responds to stimuli, just like any other? Pul-leese! |
Mmmmm - sorry I just drooled on the computer, (and that was just from the words.) 
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 17:41:02 [Permalink]
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Siberia:
I don't see why people try to keep the notion that humans are somewhat better than, or different of, the rest of Animalia. But then, I don't see anything wrong with being an animal, so maybe I'm the weird one. |
Right. And that is why surviving long enough to procreate is ultimately the only thing that actually matters, meaning wise, if we must ponder such things. We do it for the species. Everything else is just window dressing. Now, I am very fond of the window dressing because I get to enjoy this song, among other things:
The Galaxy Song
By Eric Idle and Jon Du Prez
Whenever life gets you down, Mrs. Brown,
And things seem hard or tough,
And people are stupid, obnoxious or daft,
And you feel that you've had quite eno-o-o-o-o-ough...
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the "Milky Way".
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.
(Animated calliope interlude)
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.
It's nice that we are sentient creatures. But the bottom line is the same for us as it is for all other creatures that we share this rock with.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:19:32 [Permalink]
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Filthy, the point is man can contemplate the choice and make a choice presented by the stimuli. Man is more than a reaction to stimuli. That is the difference in thought about man that we have.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:25:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Filthy, the point is man can contemplate the choice and make a choice presented by the stimuli. Man is more than a reaction to stimuli. That is the difference in thought about man that we have.
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Do you believe man is alone with this capability? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:27:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
We do it for the species. |
Actually, we do it for our own lineages. If helping out others in our species helps ourselves, that's nice, but evolution knows little of schemes grander than comingling germ cells. We, as human beings, have a foresight that evolution does not, and so we can execute cost/benefit analyses on actions that help ourselves by helping the species. Or even, as is discussed often these days, helping ourselves by maintaining the whole damn ecosystem. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:27:59 [Permalink]
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Siberia, man is different than other animals because man can contemplate, measure, and relay information from many past generations outside of the genetic code. This is not necessarily "better" only different. It is said that ignorance is bliss. I have contemplated the fact that animals being ignorant may be better, as they do not contemplate.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:32:48 [Permalink]
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dv82matt said:
| On the main topic of the thread "meaning of life" questions are a pet peeve of mine because they are so poorly worded as to be essentially meaningless. |
The question is meant to cause one to think; it is intentionally vague so as to allow introspection and thoughtful talk.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:33:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| Might as well ask, "What is your personal meaning of house?" now that's profound. |
A place where everybody knows my name.
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CHEERS!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:37:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Filthy, the point is man can contemplate the choice and make a choice presented by the stimuli. Man is more than a reaction to stimuli. That is the difference in thought about man that we have.
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Do you believe man is alone with this capability?
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Yes, only man can contemplate.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:37:57 [Permalink]
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Dave:
Actually, we do it for our own lineages. |
Yeah… huh…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 19:13:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Because if you do it for the "sake of doing good" you find yourself reverting back to the childish attitudes of selfishness. There needs to be a reason outside of the self.
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I'd ask you to substantial this assertion with more than just your opinion, but your history here has shown that you will not and more likely can not.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Where have I used the bible as a source. I think only once,
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I derive my moral code from the Ten Commandments. And that was just the first that I found. But then you blabbered something about not in a religious sense but looking to the actual meaning of the words. You couldn't support this nor did you know anything about evolution.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
and that was used to show that man made religion has been a problem for a long time; the book was written a long time ago, it would be a valid source for this question.
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I suspect that all religions are man made. Your interpretation of the bible is just another. Though, I still contend that you are risking eternal damnation. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2007 : 19:33:35 [Permalink]
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Man differs from other animals only in sapience. It has yet to be shown that sapience has any long-term, species survival value. And reading history, and observing current events, I strongly suspect that it has none.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 19:52:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Man differs from other animals only in sapience. It has yet to be shown that sapience has any long-term, species survival value. And reading history, and observing current events, I strongly suspect that it has none.
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Mans population has increased dramatically over time. So far it is fact that this sapience has "long-term, species survival value".
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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"What is your personal meaning of life?"
