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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 22:38:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by HalfMooner
One more time: Imagine you live on a flat, Kansas farm. In the middle of one large field is a huge granite boulder that has been there since your ancestors pioneered the farm. For generations, everyone has had to plow around the boulder.
The boulder's granite is not at all like anything else on the farm, or in the region. It is what is called an "exotic."
There is the boulder. That it exists is indisputable.
You have a "theory" that the boulder was deposited by a glacier during the last Ice Age. Your theory may or may not be correct.
Two separate things: 1) The boulder, and 2) Your "boulder theory."
See, it's not that hard, Jerome.
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You do realize he's just going to pull something blatantly vapid out to attempt not to understand the explaination, don't you?
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Yes, certainly. But lurkers may learn a lesson or two about the tricks of Creationists and other flim-flammers in the process.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 23:58:25 [Permalink]
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Gravity isn't a fact, it's a force.
Evolution isn't a fact, it's a process. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2007 : 00:28:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Gravity isn't a fact, it's a force.
Evolution isn't a fact, it's a process.
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True, but that force and that process each have a factual basis, which are quite independent of our beliefs, theories, or ignorance about them.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2007 : 03:13:51 [Permalink]
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For explanations of the theory of Evolution that almost any idiot can understand at least some part of, go here, here and/or here.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2007 : 07:02:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
We are talking about the evidence for life's ability to come from non life. |
The theory evolution is about the development of life after it originated.
The butterfly story is evidence of evolution.
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The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2007 : 07:17:05 [Permalink]
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| Sorry Abdul, you will have to get used to the idea that a flaw with the gay rights debate directly contradicts the concept of the Big Bang. COUGH(goddidit)COUGH |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2007 : 22:04:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So, you are stating that a theory explains a fact?
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Yes. Or more precisely, a set of facts.
Did you even open the link I provided?
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So, you are saying that the theory of evolution explains the fact of evolution.
Not, the theory of evolution explains the facts present in observable biological function.
Or, are you saying that observable biological functions are evidence of the fact of evolution?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2007 : 22:13:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So, you are stating that a theory explains a fact?
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Yes. Or more precisely, a set of facts.
Did you even open the link I provided?
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So, you are saying that the theory of evolution explains the fact of evolution.
Not, the theory of evolution explains the facts present in observable biological function.
Or, are you saying that observable biological functions are evidence of the fact of evolution?
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Knock it off... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 06:58:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Or, are you saying that observable biological functions are evidence of the fact of evolution? |
Observable biological change is the fact of evolution. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 07:18:26 [Permalink]
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OFFC wrote: Gravity isn't a fact, it's a force.
Evolution isn't a fact, it's a process. |
Gravity is a force and a fact.
Evolution is a process and a fact.
Facts are merely things known to have happened or be true in the real world. Both gravity and evolution are such claims. You may reject one or both assertions, but they are nontheless facts, in exactly the same way that the process of digestion is a fact and the electromagnetic force is a fact. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/17/2007 07:18:58 |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 07:48:56 [Permalink]
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That sounds like a real dumbing down of language to me. To describe gravity as a fact seems like it's a piece of data or something that happened on some occasion. Rather than a theory that can be described by verifiable facts.
Anyway this is veering way off topic.
There have been many cases of things like his occuring, myxomatosis anyone? If this is all it takes to impress people, just look at the amount of resistant strains of diseases that have evolved to beat our drugs. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 08:04:45 [Permalink]
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On fire for Christ:
That sounds like a real dumbing down of language to me. To describe gravity as a fact seems like it's a piece of data or something that happened on some occasion. Rather than a theory that can be described by verifiable facts. |
If you drop a brick, it will fall to the ground. That is a fact. Why does it do that? That is a theory. There is no dumbing down of the language. Gravity happens. Fact. Why does it happen? Theory. This is language being precise, and in discussions about science, it is best to be precise so there are no misunderstandings about what is actually being said.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 08:38:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
There have been many cases of things like his occuring, myxomatosis anyone? If this is all it takes to impress people, just look at the amount of resistant strains of diseases that have evolved to beat our drugs. |
Yes, those are all examples of evolution occuring. They aren't meant to impress anyone, they are simply observable phenomena of genetic changes (the fact of evolution) which are explained by the mechanisms of mutation, selection and drift, to name a few (the theory of evolution).
What's impressive is that - for one example - the nested hierarchy of common descent that one gets from studying the morphology of current species and past fossils is almost exactly the same as the hierarchy one gets from studying the genetic differences between current species. Such a match is necessary for the current biological theories to be true, but wholly irrelevant to ID and other forms of creationism. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 09:31:22 [Permalink]
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A brick will fall to the ground (fact) and gravity indeed does happen (fact). It's a theory based on facts. "Gravity exists" is a fact. "Gravity" is not a fact. You're still dumbing down. Am I a fact? I exist right? So "I" am a fact? Or is "I exist" the fact? Think about it.
To Dave, my point was that this is a regular occurance and thus mundane. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 09:53:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
To Dave, my point was that this is a regular occurance and thus mundane. |
I may be having difficulties in identifying the referent of your "this," but a rebound from 1% males to 40% in ten generations is hardly a regular occurance for any sexually-reproducing population. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Evolution caught in the act!
