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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 11:09:23 [Permalink]
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Gary wrote: Pendulum practice day.
A back and forth movement indicates NO and a clockwise circular motion indicates YES for me.
1. Did Sir John Frederick William Herschel reincarnate as someone who knew the actor George Sanders? YES
2. Were they related? YES
3. Did Sir John Frederick William Herschel reincarnate as the son of George Sanders? NO
4. Did Sir John Frederick William Herschel reincarnate as the brother of George Sanders? YES |
OK, I decided to be “open minded”. I assumed that one of those cat toys that is a fishing rod with a feather at the end is an adequate pendulum.
I held the rod in my hand and asked the four above questions. To my surprise, the feather did indeed move in the directions that corresponded “yes” or “no” as Gary claimed. However, I noticed that after it began moving in whichever direction that my hand also moved, ever so slightly, in the same direction. I must have been thinking about how it was supposed to move and thus making it move that way.
Next I stuck the rod under a book on my desk. There is some bias here still since my hand has to get the feather moving in the first place, but my powers of subconscious manipulation must have been adequately stifled, because when I ran the experiment a second time, I got an accuracy rate of 50%.
Then I started asking a bunch of other random questions that I knew the answers to, and received an assortment of answers both correct and wrong. BTW, what does it mean when it moves counter clockwise?
Kubaba wants her toy back now, so I'm done experimenting.
Edited to clean it up for Dave's sake.  |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/29/2007 18:45:53 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 11:42:57 [Permalink]
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I had been avoiding this thread for a while, and just now I took the time to really get through it all and respond. Not sure if it was worth the bother now, but too late to cry about it.
Anyway, first Gary: | It all boils down to a willingness to widen the human experience. |
What, you mean like travel to unfamiliar places, study things about the world, make new and different friends, raise or mentor a child, master a craft, read a novel, write a song or poem? Oh, wait, no you mean sit around playing with a pendulum, hoping it linked you to some metaphysical plane so you can figure out which dead famous people were reincarnated into which living famous people. Sorry, I'm more interested in my life. And I think the best way to heal from pain (if the pain we're talking about is emotional, psychological, and existential angst) is to really live!
| Mystics and sages throughout the ages seemed to have the abiliy to plug into a universal source of knowledge. |
They “seemed”, and many mystics and sages have also done atrociously cruel things to their fellow man, and made mistakes, and often the “truth” revealed to one guru totally conflicts with the “truth” revealed to another, so this really doesn't say anything.
Scientists, on the other hand, have made discoveries through experiments that are verifiable through independent replication of their experiments. Also proven when these discoveries are then used to create technologies, many of which enrich our lives by curing or alleviating pain, lengthening our lives, allowing us to travel great distances in short amounts of time and communicate quickly across great distances, etc. My aunt – a mother of three – is mighty happy that technology allows her to work from home, thereby being a more attentive parent and more comfortable in her job. As a writer who gets hand cramps from using a pen or pencil too much, has trouble with spelling, and uses the Internet for fast references, I'm rather grateful for technology myself. I imagine similar things enrich your life since you are here, typing on a computer, and having created your own blog that you try to use to spread your thoughts and ideas.
| Pendulms are used by many medicinal practioners. A man cured me of stomach ulcers using a pendulum when doctors assured me I would have to take expensive medication for the rest of my life. That is part of my experience. |
Why would you write this even after Humbert posted the link to the “pragmatic fallacy” explanation? Did you not understand his criticism? If you think he is wrong, please explain.
Doctors make mistakes, give nasty or wrong advice. They are, after all, human. And many afflictions come and then go without any treatment. I have no idea what triggers most of my migraines, nor do I know what can consistently work to make them go away. When I hear about someone with a severed finger or toe having it re-attached with a pendulum, then I'll be impressed.
| Science can prove nothing of interest. |
That is an entirely subjective judgment. Obviously scientists and laymen who learn about science for fun find the di |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/29/2007 11:45:12 |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2007 : 18:01:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Gary wrote: [quote] Pendulum practice day.
A back and forth movement indicates NO and a clockwise circular motion indicates YES for me.
...
OK, Kubaba wants her toy back now, so I'm done experimenting.
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Good stuff Marf. Mind you, you could've got the cat(s) in on the act and seen if they pawed the pendulum in a linear or circular fashion. 
I was thinking of asking Gary 7 some questions and making some suggestions. I have heard similar "Pendulum lie detector" stories in my youth, and my perception was that it seemed to work when the subject believed it would. Funny that.
I might have to try some of these myself when I get a chance:
Have you tried doing it with your eyes closed? I'm just wondering if visual feedback is an important of the mechanism. Ask your question, wait 10 seconds or so, then snap your eyes open and see which way the pendulum is moving. Better yet, have an observer record the results.
Try some tests to see whether the pendulum shows what you believe versus what is. Have a friend flip a coin and place it down but not visible to you. Can you determine it's orientation? What if they tell you which way it is, can you determine whether or not they're telling the truth?
On your own you could flip the coin yourself, but not look and then use the pendulum to determine what your "inner eye: (or other favoured metaphysical vehicle) sees.
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John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 07/29/2007 18:03:29 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 18:21:33 [Permalink]
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John, it wasn't until I started thinking about those sorts of experiments that I began leaving woo things behind.
Of course, it wasn't until years later that I first heard of the ideomotor effect, but I already knew that the pendulum would move whatever way I wanted it to move. No matter how hard you try to keep your hands and fingers still (short of clamping them in a vise), all you've gotta do is think "circle, circle, circle" over and over, and it'll move in a circle after a few seconds. Think "line, line, line" and it'll move in a straight line after a while.
The nastiest part of the pendulum trick (nasty to the people who think it works) is that you have to move your hand and/or fingers in order to keep the pendulum swinging. And it's that motion which best hides the effect.
In short, the pendulum doesn't tell us nothing - it tells us exactly what we want it to tell us.
marf: thanks! But as an editor, I read it over again and cringed. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 18:40:30 [Permalink]
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Dave wrote: | The nastiest part of the pendulum trick (nasty to the people who think it works) is that you have to move your hand and/or fingers in order to keep the pendulum swinging. And it's that motion which best hides the effect. |
I've never read or heard anything about how pendulums work, so I'll admit that it freaked me out at first when the answers all came out how they were supposed to. I thought it was just a coincidence before I noticed my hand moving.
I think I am going to try having the cat bat at it to get it moving instead of my own hand, and also try writing down questions and then mixing them up and picking them at random, then moving the pendulum BEFORE I look at the question. This is if I get bored and have some time tomorrow. If so I'll post those results. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 18:43:11 [Permalink]
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Cool experiments, Marf! Thanks for sharing that. I look forward to your further research, along with that of your feline lab assistants.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/29/2007 18:44:54 |
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Gary 7
New Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:42:47 [Permalink]
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Has there ever been famous or influential skeptics in history?
Are skeptics just too insipid? - they seem to inspire nothing and also seem intent on blocking the full development of human potential.
In short sad and pathetic. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:48:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gary 7
Has there ever been famous or influential skeptics in history?
Are skeptics just too insipid? - they seem to inspire nothing and also seem intent on blocking the full development of human potential.
In short sad and pathetic.
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Yes, we're a boring lot, being all hung up with that "reality," "material world," and "sanity" stuff. Sorry we're not as tasty as you might prefer, Gary.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/29/2007 19:50:56 |
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Gary 7
New Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:52:17 [Permalink]
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| Mystics and sages throughout the ages seemed to have the abiliy to plug into a universal source of knowledge. |
They “seemed”, and many mystics and sages have also done atrociously cruel things to their fellow man, and made mistakes, and often the “truth” revealed to one guru totally conflicts with the “truth” revealed to another, so this really doesn't say anything.
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Do you have any concrete examples of this in mind? Usually the sages were murdered or executed. Apparently many did reincarnate as the Nazis and had their revenge and now have reincarnated as New Age leaders and gurus trying to create the New World Order. But they were never the "real" thing to begin with. They just operated through ego.
Hitler heard voices and acted upon them - does he qualify as a mystic? For me he doesn't. I perceive him as a meglomaniac who took drugs and who had a hangup about his Jewish origins and homosexuality. |
| Edited by - Gary 7 on 07/29/2007 19:53:18 |
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Gary 7
New Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:57:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Gary 7
Has there ever been famous or influential skeptics in history?
Are skeptics just too insipid? - they seem to inspire nothing and also seem intent on blocking the full development of human potential.
In short sad and pathetic.
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Yes, we're a boring lot, being all hung up with that "reality," "material world," and "sanity" stuff. Sorry we're not as tasty as you might prefer, Gary.
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Well, I used to be a skeptic,too. I realized it was my programming - you know - the media and peer groups etc.
I decided to change. Skepticism is a tool for those having a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. We can become the unconscious tools of repression. |
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Gary 7
New Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 20:02:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Dave wrote: | The nastiest part of the pendulum trick (nasty to the people who think it works) is that you have to move your hand and/or fingers in order to keep the pendulum swinging. And it's that motion which best hides the effect. |
I've never read or heard anything about how pendulums work, so I'll admit that it freaked me out at first when the answers all came out how they were supposed to. I thought it was just a coincidence before I noticed my hand moving.
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Your hand must move or else the pendulum cannot move. That's called common sense.
There is also mental dowsing - this is perhaps more accurate. Sensations in the brain may indicate a YES, for instance. You have to do a lot of work with the hand held ones first. Consider the data received carefully and persist etc. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 20:05:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gary 7...
Has there ever been famous or influential skeptics in history? |
How about, just for a start, Ben Franklin, Alexander Graham Bell, Isaac Newton, Marie Curie, Carl Sagan, Charles Darwin, Archimedes, Nikola Tesla, Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo Galilei, Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Copernicus, and Max Planck? Would you like several hundred more? And how about all those famous influential dowsers, Gary?
Well, I used to be a skeptic,too. I realized it was my programming - you know - the media and peer groups etc.
I decided to change. Skepticism is a tool for those having a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. We can become the unconscious tools of repression. |
Then you clearly have no idea what is actually meant by the term skeptic. And with that severe of a misunderstanding, when you thought you were a skeptic, you weren't. You could start by reading the mission statement at the bottom of this page for your badly needed first clue.
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| Edited by - GeeMack on 07/29/2007 20:10:34 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 20:08:52 [Permalink]
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Gary 7 noted:| We can become the unconscious tools of repression. |
Some of us are the conscious agents of repression, as you have been advised.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gary 7
New Member
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 20:38:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I had been avoiding this thread for a while, and just now I took the time to really get through it all and respond. Not sure if it was worth the bother now, but too late to cry about it.
Anyway, first Gary: | It all boils down to a willingness to widen the human experience. |
What, you mean like travel to unfamiliar places, study things about the world, make new and different friends, raise or mentor a child, master a craft, read a novel, write a song or poem? Oh, wait, no you mean sit around playing with a pendulum, hoping it linked you to some metaphysical plane so you can figure out which dead famous people were reincarnated into which living famous people. Sorry, I'm more interested in my life. And I think the best way to heal from pain (if the pain we're talking about is emotional, psychological, and existential angst) is to really live! |
So you aren't willing to widen your experience! You know you can do everything and explore dowsing, too. That's called a double whammy! But not if you don't want to. You may be shutting yourself off from metaphysical experiences - perhaps past life trauma is affecting the present and you feel uncomfortable about this topic.
Carl Sagan is said to have asked the Dalai Lama what he would do if science could prove that reincarnation was nonsense. The Dalai Lama is said to have replied "stop believing immediately".
Is there any sensible reason why I should dismiss the information received from dowsing?
If you ask me is there any sensible reason why people should consider dowsing, I would reply YES.
Pendulums were endorsed by King Solomon and Cleopatra etc. and used in minefields, but that's not the main reason.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 20:42:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gary 7
Has there ever been famous or influential skeptics in history?
Are skeptics just too insipid? - they seem to inspire nothing and also seem intent on blocking the full development of human potential.
In short sad and pathetic. |
Wow. How are you going to be able to develop with all that hate flowing through you?
And it seems that you still don't want to talk metaphysics. You just want to browbeat people with it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Shirley Maclaine & Kevin Ryerson
