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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 17:20:19 [Permalink]
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marty wrote: | Your implication is symptomatic of my observation. |
Certainly the "troll" accusation has been thrown around way way too much on this forum. In this particular discussion, GeeMack's suggestion that Gorgo was being trollish, and now Mooner's implication that you are being trollish are just silly and hypocritical. I, too, am tired of it. However, several other people on this forum have mentioned that they are sick of the over-accusations of troll behavior.
| I guess you prefer to only talk respectfully to those within the "group". |
Naw, there are a couple people here who are rude to everyone, including people in the group. | You are turning me off very quickly. |
This is definitely a pretty "hot" forum at times due to the low-key moderation and the aggressiveness and passion of the majority of regular members. Most of the people who stay around enjoy the freedom of expression that this allows, even if it does turn off other people. It is a bummer if it scares you off, but like I said in my last post, not every forum is for everyone.
| This attitude I left behind in grammar school and I have no time for cliques. |
SFN is not a clique. There are members within this group who are regulars and who disagree on most things or who can't stand each other on a personal level. Political opinions vary quite a bit, even if almost everyone here is socially liberal. In terms of religion I think we are the most homogeneous - seems almost all atheist and agnostic. I wish we had more theistic skeptics personally, so it wouldn't seem that skepticism and atheism are synonymous with each other, but I do think some of the anti-religious fervor of a minority on this forum scares most theists away. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 17:27:02 [Permalink]
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Mooner wrote: | Was that too "veiled" for you? how about, "You're a troll, Marty"? |
WTF, Mooner? I just went through Marty's posts on this forum, and I fail to see how he qualifies as a troll. He started and articulately participated in a very lively conversation about whether all citizens should be allowed to vote. In this conversation he's simply made a newcomer's observation, and in fact, the moderators here just started a poll because they wanted imput on how well they've been moderating, so this a very valid topic of conversation, and relevant to the topic of this thread.
Maybe we are really just bringing out the worst in each other. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/29/2007 17:27:22 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 17:34:52 [Permalink]
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Marf wrote:| In this particular discussion, GeeMack's suggestion that Gorgo was being trollish, and now Mooner's implication that you are being trollish are just silly and hypocritical. |
Okay, "silly" is one of the things I strive for. But if I'm being "hypocritical" about recognizing a troll when I think I see one, then I'd appreciate that you demonstrate how I'm a troll. (Because if I'm being "hypocritical" about trolling, this logically assumes I must be a troll myself.)
For clarity in this discussion, I would define "trolling" as deliberately and systematically, over a period of time, making posts with an intent to disrupt a forum. I assert that I may be guilty of some of the things falling within that definition, but not all of them. Please show how my assertion is wrong.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2007 : 17:40:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Mooner wrote: | Was that too "veiled" for you? how about, "You're a troll, Marty"? |
WTF, Mooner? I just went through Marty's posts on this forum, and I fail to see how he qualifies as a troll. He started and articulately participated in a very lively conversation about whether all citizens should be allowed to vote. In this conversation he's simply made a newcomer's observation, and in fact, the moderators here just started a poll because they wanted imput on how well they've been moderating, so this a very valid topic of conversation, and relevant to the topic of this thread.
Maybe we are really just bringing out the worst in each other.
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In my own reading, I see his repeated attacks on the forums in general, upon the posters' attitudes in general, and all without providing evidence. You and I interpret the same evidence differently, Marf. Meanwhile, can we agree that marty ought to be backing up his assertions better than he is?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 17:41:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marty
You are turning me off very quickly. |
While it would be nice if everyone in the world could find a home at the SFN, the reality is that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Thanks for trying, though.
You also wrote:| You seem nothing less than a foolish ogre in a small pond with the belief that he is big. |
I've already commented upon my perception of your lack of perceptive skills. I don't know why you'd think that trying them out again in the same fashion would impress me.| You not only did not comprehend what I was saying you counter with an incoherent retort. |
Unfortunately, I did comprehend you, and you then failed to comprehend my reply.| If you will take a moment and process my critique you will see that I am being constructive if you desire new peoples to feel welcome and become part of your forum. |
Actually, the people who become part of the forum and seem to feel most welcome are those without huge chips on their shoulders, no matter whether their viewpoints agree with any other members'. They are, in fact, the ones most likely to make "unpopular" statements and still receive tons of respect in the resultant disagreement.
But I certainly won't try to hide the fact that when people with chips on their shoulders come in, our members generally will go to lengths to knock 'em off. That is the point, isn't it? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marty
BANNED
63 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 18:43:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by marty
You are turning me off very quickly. |
While it would be nice if everyone in the world could find a home at the SFN, the reality is that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Thanks for trying, though.
You also wrote:| You seem nothing less than a foolish ogre in a small pond with the belief that he is big. |
I've already commented upon my perception of your lack of perceptive skills. I don't know why you'd think that trying them out again in the same fashion would impress me.| You not only did not comprehend what I was saying you counter with an incoherent retort. |
Unfortunately, I did comprehend you, and you then failed to comprehend my reply.| If you will take a moment and process my critique you will see that I am being constructive if you desire new peoples to feel welcome and become part of your forum. |
Actually, the people who become part of the forum and seem to feel most welcome are those without huge chips on their shoulders, no matter whether their viewpoints agree with any other members'. They are, in fact, the ones most likely to make "unpopular" statements and still receive tons of respect in the resultant disagreement.
But I certainly won't try to hide the fact that when people with chips on their shoulders come in, our members generally will go to lengths to knock 'em off. That is the point, isn't it?
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Nothing but a condescending asshole! Enjoy your circle jerk!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 18:47:59 [Permalink]
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Marty explained:| Nothing but a condescending asshole! Enjoy your circle jerk! |
I hereby claim a "hit," as I called him a troll first!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:04:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Marty explained:| Nothing but a condescending asshole! Enjoy your circle jerk! |
I hereby claim a "hit," as I called him a troll first!
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Gracious! He went off the deep end in a hurry, didn't he?
I've said it before; people really need to research these boards before jumping in. They are certainly not for everyone.
Marty, these are tough fora and there is a lot of expertise in many subjects represented here. And many if not most of us are chronic researchers. The very worst thing you can do is try to bullshit us or get on a high horse. I suggest that you cool off a bit and come back with a more relaxed and open attitude.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:15:14 [Permalink]
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Mooner wrote: | But if I'm being "hypocritical" about recognizing a troll when I think I see one, then I'd appreciate that you demonstrate how I'm a troll. (Because if I'm being "hypocritical" about trolling, this logically assumes I must be a troll myself.) |
Hypocritical for accusing someone of trolling just because they said something critical, when you are yourself are criticizing him in return. Since I'm asserting that marty was not trolling, you don't have to be trolling for the term hypocritical to apply. I'm basically saying that what you are saying to him is no less disruptive or inflammatory than the statements he made in the first place.
I think the word "troll" has become incredibly watered down on this forum. A troll pisses people off and provokes people on purpose just for the fun of watching people get upset. A troll is malicious. For better or worse, marty seems genuinely put off by the tone of SFN.
| Please show how my assertion is wrong. |
I don't know how I can beyond saying what I already said. I've looked at marty's posts. He does seem to try to rock the boat a little, but not to just disrupt things for his own entertainment. All the best members of SFN try to rock the boat a little in order to challenge ourselves and each other. Couldn't we have just responded to marty by agreeing or disagreeing with his criticisms, and explaining why we did so? Why was the first response insults and accusations of trolling? That just seems so extreme and unproductive.
Unsurprisingly, I think marty's taken off. He got upset enough over the insults that he started throwing back insults, and the whole thing just escalated into crap.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/29/2007 19:16:11 |
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marty
BANNED
63 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:20:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Marty explained:| Nothing but a condescending asshole! Enjoy your circle jerk! |
I hereby claim a "hit," as I called him a troll first!
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Thats great, you insult and bait and then claim victory in your discovery of a troll. Did you not even read marfknoxs post? You created a self fulfilling prophecy. You have not even tried to talk, only insults and badgering.
This forum is a troll haven.
I attempted to point out that this was the appearance from an outside perspective and I was attacked in kind.
I may lurk from time to time to see the dogs fighting over raw meat and eating their own.
More of a spectacle than skeptical.
Is that the game halfmooner, bait and find trolls. You found one in the mirror. Either you are too stupid to know this or that is the purpose.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:31:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marty
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Marty explained:| Nothing but a condescending asshole! Enjoy your circle jerk! |
I hereby claim a "hit," as I called him a troll first!
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Thats great, you insult and bait and then claim victory in your discovery of a troll. Did you not even read marfknoxs post? You created a self fulfilling prophecy. You have not even tried to talk, only insults and badgering.
This forum is a troll haven.
I attempted to point out that this was the appearance from an outside perspective and I was attacked in kind.
I may lurk from time to time to see the dogs fighting over raw meat and eating their own.
More of a spectacle than skeptical.
Is that the game halfmooner, bait and find trolls. You found one in the mirror. Either you are too stupid to know this or that is the purpose.
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Okay, I admit was just being silly in that post. If anyone took it seriously, then let me withdraw it. But you, marty, have still neither contributed to skeptical debate here, nor backed up your constant digs with evidence. You seem to limit yourself to loaded, unevidenced, insulting one-liners. What is see is the kind of systematic attacks that fit my definition of trolling: | I would define "trolling" as deliberately and systematically, over a period of time, making posts with an intent to disrupt a forum. |
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:39:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marty
I attempted to point out that this was the appearance from an outside perspective and I was attacked in kind. |
To be "attacked in kind" means that you received as good as you dished out. But that's not your complaint, you're saying that you're an innocent victim. However, you refused to make any attempt at understanding other people's perspectives while you demanded attention for your own.
I tried to reason with you, but that failed. You got snotty. And when the chip got knocked off your shoulder, you got downright abusive.
Kinda tough to be holier-than-thou if you're going to explode at the least provocation, isn't it, marty? Except you're still trying, flinging insults every which way, now, splattering mud even upon those who might agree with you about your main point.
(And I happen to agree with marf about the troll label.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 19:44:49 [Permalink]
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I may lurk from time to time to see the dogs fighting over raw meat and eating their own.
More of a spectacle than skeptical.
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To a point at least, I agree with Marf and Marty. Accusations of 'troll,' among others, are often tossed out a little too easily. And too often, we are prone to attack when such is not necessary.
But Marty, if you are going to participate here, you need to control that temper and thicken up your skin. If you can't do that, then go ahead; fuck off.
Otherwise, stick around; you might learn something.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 02:16:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by boomer
Hello all. I am new to this group. After reading some of these posts, I must say you guys seem to be angry and rude to each other.
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Hello and Welcome boomer!
As for some of these post being rude and angry, I can understand you. We have just had a person here who reveled in being annoying and pulling everyone's legs and taunting us, and generally derailing almost every thread. Can you understand why we are upset?
Please give us a chance to calm down and show you what we are all about, and you might come to enjoy this place. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 10:48:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by boomer
Hello all. I am new to this group. After reading some of these posts, I must say you guys seem to be angry and rude to each other. |
I would like to second Dr. Mabuse's welcome, and also urge you to look at many of the other topics of conversation; this one is, by definition, somewhat "trollish."
Anyway, welcome to the SFN, boomer! |
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Troll?
