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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2007 : 15:30:00
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I first found this on an atheist site.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 15:43:51 [Permalink]
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When I saw with my own eyes that rock not turning into a human or even a monkey (as Darwin so famously claimed it would) I was convinced.
Seriously, though... All I see in these videos is the continuing hand-waving repetition of the Creationist conclusion. When it comes down to "proof," we are asked to stare at a rock. The only proof there is that the Creationists are conflating abiogenesis with evolution.
One would think that they would eventually understand that evolution says nothing about the ultimate origin of life. (If they have a problem with abiogenesis, they should at least wait until there is an actual Theory of Abiogenesis!)
Actually, I think that they understand the scientific position that there is a difference between evolution and abiogenesis. But they must conflate the two because Creation and "kinds" are inseparable within their mythology. To accept abiogenesis and evolution as separate subjects, they would have to at least partially buy into rational scientific thinking. And that could signal the collapse of their fairy-tale.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/29/2007 17:02:46 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2007 : 16:43:43 [Permalink]
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Hilarius, and I don't believe for a minute that it's a spoof -- although it would make a pretty damned good one.
Because, you see, the more precariously balanced of the creationists, such as Kent Hovind, regularly produce exactly that sort of straw man: "You can't get a croc from a rock!"
And that is true, but -- aha! -- you can get a rock from a croc.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 17:07:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Hilarius, and I don't believe for a minute that it's a spoof -- although it would make a pretty damned good one.
Because, you see, the more precariously balanced of the creationists, such as Kent Hovind, regularly produce exactly that sort of straw man: "You can't get a croc from a rock!"
And that is true, but -- aha! -- you can get a rock from a croc.
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The novel I'm reading, Amazonia, by James Rollins, contains a claim that one giant caiman was cut open, and two outboard motors were found in its belly. I'm unsure if that was a fictional element of the novel, but it was presented as though it were factual background.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/29/2007 17:07:27 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 18:11:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by filthy
Hilarius, and I don't believe for a minute that it's a spoof -- although it would make a pretty damned good one.
Because, you see, the more precariously balanced of the creationists, such as Kent Hovind, regularly produce exactly that sort of straw man: "You can't get a croc from a rock!"
And that is true, but -- aha! -- you can get a rock from a croc.
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The novel I'm reading, Amazonia, by James Rollins, contains a claim that one giant caiman was cut open, and two outboard motors were found in its belly. I'm unsure if that was a fictional element of the novel, but it was presented as though it were factual background.
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I'd have to have been doing the cutting to believe that one. The biggest gastrolith from a large crocodilian is about the size of a tennis ball or smaller. These stay in the stomach until they are worn small enough to pass out with faeces and new ones are added as needed.
Years back, there was a rather large alligator in S. Flordia that had set up shop in a pond at a golf course, and was making a nuisance of itself by occasionaly scarfing up golf balls.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 09:11:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
.
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Years back, there was a rather large alligator in S. Flordia that had set up shop in a pond at a golf course, and was making a nuisance of itself by occasionaly scarfing up golf balls. |
Makes it more fun to make your golf partner to play it where it lies! |
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Roddy
New Member
Panama
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 05:25:06 [Permalink]
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There's also a Muslim Rational Response Team, believe it or not.
They claim that the Bible is flawed, and the more you read it, the more you realize that Christianity s dumb.
But Islam is different because the Koran is not flawed. The Koran is beautiful. So beautiful it couldn't have been written by a normal person.
Except for the fact that most of it is taken from the Old Testament, so I guess plagiarism comes to mind. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 05:42:49 [Permalink]
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Sacred plagerism is rife within all religions. They see something that looks like it'll give them a few converts and they'll snaffle it up. Chris'mas comes to mind.... Is Christmas Christian?
1. Introduction
'What a strange question,' you may exclaim. 'Of course Christmas is Christian: it commemorates the birth of the Saviour of the world - Jesus Christ - the Son of God!'
Stunning as the following facts may appear, it is essential to bring them to your notice.
Christmas is a PAGAN not a Christian festival.
The 25th December was celebrated in ancient days as the birthday of the unconquerable SUN god, (variously know as Tammuz, Mithra, Saturn, Adonis or BAAL) centuries before Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem.
Nowhere in the Bible are believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob required to celebrate Christmas.
The early Christian church did not celebrate Christmas. Instead it celebrated the sacred festivals mentioned in the Bible, in Leviticus chapter 23.
In order to win Gentile converts to the Christian faith, the Roman Church, centuries after the apostolic era, adopted this ancient pagan winter festival of the SUN god and renamed it 'Christmas' mistakenly thinking that it would honour the SON of God.
Scholars have for centuries known these facts. They can be confirmed in any reference library.
This article will first answer the question: When, according to Scripture, was Jesus Christ born? It will then go on to quote various historians who wrote concerning Christmas, then list the scriptural alternatives to Christmas, Easter, All Saints day etc. and the customs associated with them. It will end with a challenging question which all true believers - of whatever faith - must answer.
To begin with let me plainly state that the Scriptures do not give the precise date of the Saviour's birth. However, by close examination of various passages in the Bible we are able to conclude that most certainly he was not born on the 25th December (mid-winter in the northern hemisphere) but at some time in the autumn of the year. Here is how we arrive at that opinion.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 14:54:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Roddy
There's also a Muslim Rational Response Team, believe it or not.
They claim that the Bible is flawed, and the more you read it, the more you realize that Christianity s dumb.
But Islam is different because the Koran is not flawed. The Koran is beautiful. So beautiful it couldn't have been written by a normal person.
Except for the fact that most of it is taken from the Old Testament, so I guess plagiarism comes to mind.
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They're certainly right about the Koran not being written (or, rather, dictated) by a normal person. It seems likely Muhammad was a bitter, illiterate, child-molesting* pedophile, a murderer, who was filled with a desire for vengeance, and was prone to seizures, hallucinations, and psychotic episodes. He'd gave been right at home with the Old Testament prophets.
* Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad. She stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated.[3] The marriage was delayed until after the Hijra, or migration to Medina, in 622. Aisha and her older sister Asma only moved to Medina after Muhammad had already fled there. Abu Bakr gave Muhammad the money to build a house for himself. After this, the wedding was celebrated very simply.
After the wedding, Aisha continued to play with her toys, and Muhammad entered into the spirit of these games.[4] |
Source: Wiki.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/05/2007 15:07:43 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 15:07:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Roddy
There's also a Muslim Rational Response Team, believe it or not.
They claim that the Bible is flawed, and the more you read it, the more you realize that Christianity s dumb.
But Islam is different because the Koran is not flawed. The Koran is beautiful. So beautiful it couldn't have been written by a normal person.
Except for the fact that most of it is taken from the Old Testament, so I guess plagiarism comes to mind.
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They're certainly right about the Koran not being written (or, rather, dictated) by a normal person. It seems likely Muhammad was a bitter, illiterate, child-molesting murderer, who was filled with a desire for vengeance, and was prone to seizures, hallucinations, and psychotic episodes. He'd gave been right at home with the Old Testament prophets.
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After all that, he'd be right at home with some of our modern ones, as well.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 15:16:03 [Permalink]
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Filwrote:After all that, he'd be right at home with some of our modern ones, as well.
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Oh, yes. Sometimes, I wish there were a Hell for these folks.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 15:42:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Roddy
There's also a Muslim Rational Response Team, believe it or not.
They claim that the Bible is flawed, and the more you read it, the more you realize that Christianity s dumb.
But Islam is different because the Koran is not flawed. The Koran is beautiful. So beautiful it couldn't have been written by a normal person.
Except for the fact that most of it is taken from the Old Testament, so I guess plagiarism comes to mind.
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They're certainly right about the Koran not being written (or, rather, dictated) by a normal person. It seems likely Muhammad was a bitter, illiterate, child-molesting* pedophile, a murderer, who was filled with a desire for vengeance, and was prone to seizures, hallucinations, and psychotic episodes. He'd gave been right at home with the Old Testament prophets.
* Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad. She stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated.[3] The marriage was delayed until after the Hijra, or migration to Medina, in 622. Aisha and her older sister Asma only moved to Medina after Muhammad had already fled there. Abu Bakr gave Muhammad the money to build a house for himself. After this, the wedding was celebrated very simply.
After the wedding, Aisha continued to play with her toys, and Muhammad entered into the spirit of these games.[4] |
Source: Wiki.
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The source for this is a Haddith that is considered unreliable by Islam. If one studies the other Haddiths on mentions of Aisha (some written by Aisha herself) no such consummation came about until she reached her first menses. (As in accordance with societal norms of the time. Lower lifespan society allows age of consent earlier.) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 16:02:14 [Permalink]
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Val wrote: | The source for this is a Haddith that is considered unreliable by Islam. If one studies the other Haddiths on mentions of Aisha (some written by Aisha herself) no such consummation came about until she reached her first menses. (As in accordance with societal norms of the time. Lower lifespan society allows age of consent earlier.) |
I've mentioned that very youthful consummation to people several times, so, for accuracy, I would appreciate links to the haddiths that contradict what I've been telling people.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/05/2007 16:02:43 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 19:23:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Val wrote: | The source for this is a Haddith that is considered unreliable by Islam. If one studies the other Haddiths on mentions of Aisha (some written by Aisha herself) no such consummation came about until she reached her first menses. (As in accordance with societal norms of the time. Lower lifespan society allows age of consent earlier.) |
I've mentioned that very youthful consummation to people several times, so, for accuracy, I would appreciate links to the haddiths that contradict what I've been telling people.
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http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 20:42:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Val wrote: | The source for this is a Haddith that is considered unreliable by Islam. If one studies the other Haddiths on mentions of Aisha (some written by Aisha herself) no such consummation came about until she reached her first menses. (As in accordance with societal norms of the time. Lower lifespan society allows age of consent earlier.) |
I've mentioned that very youthful consummation to people several times, so, for accuracy, I would appreciate links to the haddiths that contradict what I've been telling people.
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http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
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Thank you! It seems interesting to me that apparently Muslim scholars don't seem to have challenged these ages (6 for betrothal and 9 for consummation) until the last century. Then, the first such challenge was written for an English-reading audience, and perhaps in light of modern concern for kids: | It appears that Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. This he did in, at least, the following writings: his English booklet Prophet of Islam, his larger English book Muhammad, the Prophet, and in the footnotes in his voluminous Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, these three writings being published in the 1920s and 1930s |
Even then, the results were not one, but a range of "more acceptable" ages for the consummation, from 14 to 18, with 18 being the newest (and most acceptable) estimate. Looks just like the Muslims do the same kind of cherry-picking (no pun intended) scholarship as Christian theologians do with the Bible, and redo them as mores change.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/05/2007 21:07:05 |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 22:14:43 [Permalink]
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My soup just came out my nose.
"Cherry-picking" - Good one, HalfMooner!
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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Religious response to the "Rational Responders"
