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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2009 : 12:49:41 [Permalink]
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Hmm. I see.
I think I know what he's trying to say, but it would be better if he were to tell it himself. I'd probably tell it wrong.
But I will say tat it is very difficult to reconcile the fossil record with any religious text.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/12/2009 12:50:46 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2009 : 13:28:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
I think a more compelling argument is the age of the earth and dinosaurs. As a christian 1.) I don't know if the earth is 4.6 billion years old but I do know that it is greater than 6000-8000 years old. I think science is pretty clear on that. Also the dinosaurs had to have lived with people if the Bible is true. Science does not support that right now. 2.) There is a mention of a beast in Job that could have been a dinosaur but thats all. We actually have bones of these animals as proof they did exist. Most christians will dismiss the flood story as a miracle but 3.) it is harder to reconcile the age of the earth and dinosaurs with science since we have these bones.
[Bolding and numbering added.] |
I'm puzzled by your meaning, too.
1.) Some Young Earth Creationists say the world could be as old as 10,000 years. Would you agree with them?
2.) Such a beast, however vague the Biblical description, almost certainly could not have been a dinosaur, don't we agree?
3.) What bones? Dinosaur bones which can't be scientifically reconciled with YEC claims, or some putative Biblical monster bones in some YEC museum which (supposedly) can't be reconciled with science's theories of deep time?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/12/2009 16:00:14 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2009 : 14:15:27 [Permalink]
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I think Robb is simply admitting that extremely strong, compelling scientific evidence stands in stark contradiction to the veracity of his religious beliefs, and that this is slightly troublesome, but nothing a little faith can't overcome. It may sound to some people like Robb is admitting defeat by citing all the evidence against him. But what he's really saying is that evidence doesn't matter to him. What are you going to believe? You're lying eyes or the bible? Robb has no trouble choosing the bible, since it's god's word and god can't be wrong. QED.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/12/2009 14:16:59 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2009 : 14:25:52 [Permalink]
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I think you are being a bit tough on the man.
He is admitting that there are compelling evidences that disprove YEC and I think that he is siding with Science (even if he doubt the 4.5 billion tag, for some reason).
That being said, the 6000 years old is nowhere explicitly mentioned in the Bible, it is merely an addition of all the 'begats' and generation given, there might be some omissions... Maybe? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2009 : 15:02:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
I think you are being a bit tough on the man. |
Ask him if he believes in a literal Garden of Eden and a literal Adam and Eve, as Jesus certainly did. If he's willing to admit that Jesus was wrong, then he has my sincerest apologies.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/12/2009 15:02:46 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2009 : 07:38:29 [Permalink]
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| Ok... Well, he is just as likely as reading your posts as mine, so I guess you asked the question already. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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tricon7
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 10:57:40 [Permalink]
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I would take your article a bit more seriously if you weren't using ad hominem attacks against creationists/Christians in every other paragraph. But perhaps your arguments are weak to the point to where you have to resort to personal attacks and mud-slinging to make up for your lack of credible evidence.
As far as your so-called evidence against the Flood of Noah event, you're merely dusting off the same old chestnut-arguments long since answered by scholars and scientists (i.e. "Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study" by Woodmorappe and http://www.rae.org/pagesix.htm). The fact that you're still resorting to using these tired, old arguments tells me that you're either 1. remaining willfully ignorant and avoiding the documented evidence which answers your arguments, or 2. you're aware of the answers and evidence, but you don't care because you have an agenda to fulfill.
As I went through your arguments against the ark and the Flood, I was mentally answering each one right down the line - but because of your constant personal attacks against creationists, I knew it would be futile to bother to reason with you. Your vitriol is literally running over against those who believe the Bible. IMHO, it's not Genesis you have a problem with; it's your Maker you have a problem with. Or maybe you *want* to believe that, as Scientific American once said, you're just re-arranged pond scum. Or that you're just evolved hydrogen gas, as the alleged Big Bang theory dictates (which, btw, even evolutionists are now abandoning).
And evolutionists accuse creationists of believing fairy tales.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 13:15:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tricon7
And evolutionists accuse creationists of believing fairy tales. |
If you're going to criticize someone for making personal attacks, perhaps you should avoid doing the same. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 14:38:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tricon7
As I went through your arguments against the ark and the Flood, I was mentally answering each one right down the line - but because of your constant personal attacks against creationists, I knew it would be futile to bother to reason with you. |
Hmm, why don't you post your answers anyway? You might be surprised. We might be surprised. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 17:11:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tricon7
As I went through your arguments against the ark and the Flood, I was mentally answering each one right down the line ...
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Reminds me of the old urban myth (?) of the guy sitting an exam at university while high on some illegal substance. Everything went great. He supplied good answers to each and every question. The person marking the paper was, however, less impressed with the answer "I know that" to every single question. Sounds a bit like you, does it not...? |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 17:45:52 [Permalink]
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tricon7:
And evolutionists accuse creationists of believing fairy tales. |
What is an "evolutionist"? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 18:33:22 [Permalink]
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Tricon 7.....
You said (among other things):| IMHO, it's not Genesis you have a problem with; it's your Maker you have a problem with. |
Tricon, I appreciate your use of "IMHO", it reveals a reasonable degree of humility and caution on your part in entering into a highly controversial area of discussion on a Skeptic's forum. It also points up an important aspect of such discussions; one is dealing with opinion on both sides of the implied questions, and persuasion emerges from how well a person can substantiate his or her opinion.
It is a fact that most of the regulars on these boards have a "problem" both with Genesis and with "their maker". I will be the first to admit that I am among those who deeply doubt the factual validity of Genesis and the very existence of any kind of God. I am interested in hearing the circumstantiation of your views on God and the Bible.
If you wish to explore these views on this forum, I and others will be glad to engage in a substantive debate with you without any name-calling or deprecatory invective and no ad hominem argumentation. I am certain that there are many here who will gladly join such a discussion without calling you names.
I would like to welcome you to SFN and I would very much like to hear your response to the article. I give you my word that I will offer you a respectful reply without personal attack or "vitriol" |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 18:45:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
It is a fact that most of the regulars on these boards have a "problem" both with Genesis and with "their maker". |
I don't have a problems with my makers. My mom died years ago, and my dad is doing a lot better since he got off the sauce. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Fundamentalists Hate Noah’s Ark
