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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2007 : 11:07:50
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Looks like the Canadian police attempted to use agent provocateurs to start a riot.
Police caught trying to start a riot.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2007 : 11:50:25 [Permalink]
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Yep, it's been all over the news up here. Absolutely shameful, and the Feds are treating it like it's no big deal.
Bastards. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2007 : 11:53:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Yep, it's been all over the news up here. Absolutely shameful, and the Feds are treating it like it's no big deal.
Bastards.
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What is the speculation in Canada as to why the police would do this?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 17:44:48 [Permalink]
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Agents provocateur such undercover thugs are called. These got caught out by alert trade unionists, and their bosses at first denied they were even cops. Expect heads to roll, if only because they were stupid enough to be caught.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 18:23:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Agents provocateur such undercover thugs are called. These got caught out by alert trade unionists, and their bosses at first denied they were even cops. Expect heads to roll, if only because they were stupid enough to be caught.
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Yea, but why were they there? Why would the Canadian government put them there? |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 19:33:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Agents provocateur such undercover thugs are called. These got caught out by alert trade unionists, and their bosses at first denied they were even cops. Expect heads to roll, if only because they were stupid enough to be caught.
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Yea, but why were they there? Why would the Canadian government put them there?
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Perhaps we need a feature moderated by, say, Ghost_Skeptic or The Rat, called, "Ask a Canadian, Eh?" Me, I have no idea about the why, only the what. Can't say I'm much acquainted with the particulars of Canadian politics.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/26/2007 19:39:03 |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 23:06:51 [Permalink]
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The Sûreté du Québec are a gang of corrupt jack-booted fascists who should have been disbanded years ago. They still live in, and long for the return of, the era of Maurice Duplessis, the notorious dictator of Quebec during the 30s, 40s, and 50s. The RCMP are hardly better these days, and are now stumbling from one embarrassment to another. A once proud and internationally respected force are little more than the Keystone Cops.
I have no problem with police infiltrating organizations which might cause violence, in order to gather information which may prevent a disturbance. In fact I would expect them to. But to actually attempt to set something in motion in order to make someone look bad is to my mind one of the first signs of a police state.
It's being brushed aside by our Public Safety Minister, Stockwell Day, who is in charge of security for things such as this. He's trying to fob off the responsibility on RCMP, saying that people with concerns should go through their complaints process. BULLSHIT! He is ultimately responsible, and should be immediately convening a formal inquiry. But what can you expect from a creationist fundie? (During an election in the 90s he was brought to task on that by the Liberal Party's Warren Kinsella, who made the famous statement "I just want to remind Mr. Day that The Flintstones was not a documentary." ) |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
| Edited by - The Rat on 08/28/2007 22:02:53 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 00:04:49 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the background, Rat. I'd had no knowledge of any of this.
The "Duplessis Orphans" tragedy in itself provides a horrible cautionary example of what a fundy, theocratric dictatorship can do.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 08:39:38 [Permalink]
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Is that what it looks like?
It looks to me as though three masked guys were ejected from a demonstration of some kind. Who they were, what they wanted to do, what (if any) organization they belonged to is all unknown.
Seriously, other than blue-blazer guy claiming they were police, what evidence is there of this claim? |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 21:44:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Seriously, other than blue-blazer guy claiming they were police, what evidence is there of this claim? |
Um, because they have admitted to it?!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/08/24/ot-montebello-sq-070824.html
They are denying trying to start a riot, but if so, why were they the only ones with rocks in their hands?
Why were they the only ones in the crowd wearing masks?
Why did they refuse to remove their masks when challenged by union leader Dave Coles?
Why were they able to lean through into the police line and not get clobbered?
Why were they heard conversing in a rather professional manner with the police?
Why, when they got through (or were allowed through?) the line they were calmly handcuffed as if it was all staged?
Why were they wearing boots exactly like police issue, with an identical tread?
And why oh why do we continue to tolerate the very existence of the Sûreté du Québec? We disbanded our Parachute Regiment when they committed crimes in Somalia, we should do the same with this gang of thugs. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 22:05:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Originally posted by Mycroft
Seriously, other than blue-blazer guy claiming they were police, what evidence is there of this claim? |
Um, because they have admitted to it?!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/08/24/ot-montebello-sq-070824.html
They are denying trying to start a riot, but if so, why were they the only ones with rocks in their hands?
Why were they the only ones in the crowd wearing masks?
Why did they refuse to remove their masks when challenged by union leader Dave Coles?
Why were they able to lean through into the police line and not get clobbered?
Why were they heard conversing in a rather professional manner with the police?
Why, when they got through (or were allowed through?) the line they were calmly handcuffed as if it was all staged?
Why were they wearing boots exactly like police issue, with an identical tread?
And why oh why do we continue to tolerate the very existence of the Sûreté du Québec? We disbanded our Parachute Regiment when they committed crimes in Somalia, we should do the same with this gang of thugs.
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To all the questions above:
They are admitted agent provocateurs.
The real questions is WHY where there agent provocateurs there?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2007 : 02:52:49 [Permalink]
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The Rat, do you Canadians have a "question time" like the Brits do, where a Prime Minister must immediately answer tough questions from Parliament members? I think that's one of the greatest traditions in any democracy. We could benefit from it in the USA.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2007 : 08:40:39 [Permalink]
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That certainly is much more substantial evidence than the videos alone. Thanks. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2007 : 16:55:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
The Rat, do you Canadians have a "question time" like the Brits do, where a Prime Minister must immediately answer tough questions from Parliament members? I think that's one of the greatest traditions in any democracy. We could benefit from it in the USA. |
Yes, we have 'Question Period', now sit back, listen to a brief dissertation on it, and please don't eat or drink when you get to my last paragraph.
Ahem... Question Period, held most days that Parliament is in session, is scheduled for 45 minutes each day, and while I am not sure that the Prime Minister is required to attend, unless they are out of the country it is considered very bad form to not do so. The Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition is invited by the Speaker of the House to ask the first question, and may address it to the PM or any other Government Minister. The questions and answers are formally routed through the Speaker, but he/she does not need to repeat them and remains impartial throughout unless ruling on matters of procedure. For the duration of Question period the PM and Ministers are subjected to a withering barrage of crossfire, sarcastically tinged comments, and heckling, and are required to be quick to their feet with accurate answers, witty rejoinders, and the best among them will even be able to turn the question around and make their interrogator squirm. They are expected to avoid the classic "I'll get back to you on that" reply, instead all the answers they might expect should be kept in their head, meaning that they must constantly be knowledgeable on the goings on of their ministry and government policy. If you ever get a chance to watch the Canadian Parliamentary channel you will be amazed at how they can keep it up at such a fast pace, completely unscripted.
Now I want you to imagine Dubya in that situation. (If you failed to heed my warning then I'm sorry, but keyboards are relatively cheap nowadays.  ) |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
| Edited by - The Rat on 08/29/2007 16:56:44 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2007 : 18:10:16 [Permalink]
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Well, Rat, it wasn't my intention to be such a good straight-man to set up your gag, but I'm glad it worked out that way. Actually, I did not spew my coffee, but only because I'd already considered the absurdity of Dubya handing such off-the-cuff interrogations. I've seen the British version of the Question Period. It was a wonder to behold.
You Canadians (and the Brits) do have a good thing going there. You may not always have good leaders, but at least they have to be smart. Our system requires neither.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2007 : 18:15:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Originally posted by HalfMooner
The Rat, do you Canadians have a "question time" like the Brits do, where a Prime Minister must immediately answer tough questions from Parliament members? I think that's one of the greatest traditions in any democracy. We could benefit from it in the USA. |
Yes, we have 'Question Period', now sit back, listen to a brief dissertation on it, and please don't eat or drink when you get to my last paragraph.
Ahem... Question Period, held most days that Parliament is in session, is scheduled for 45 minutes each day, and while I am not sure that the Prime Minister is required to attend, unless they are out of the country it is considered very bad form to not do so. The Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition is invited by the Speaker of the House to ask the first question, and may address it to the PM or any other Government Minister. The questions and answers are formally routed through the Speaker, but he/she does not need to repeat them and remains impartial throughout unless ruling on matters of procedure. For the duration of Question period the PM and Ministers are subjected to a withering barrage of crossfire, sarcastically tinged comments, and heckling, and are required to be quick to their feet with accurate answers, witty rejoinders, and the best among them will even be able to turn the question around and make their interrogator squirm. They are expected to avoid the classic "I'll get back to you on that" reply, instead all the answers they might expect should be kept in their head, meaning that they must constantly be knowledgeable on the goings on of their ministry and government policy. If you ever get a chance to watch the Canadian Parliamentary channel you will be amazed at how they can keep it up at such a fast pace, completely unscripted.
Now I want you to imagine Dubya in that situation. (If you failed to heed my warning then I'm sorry, but keyboards are relatively cheap nowadays. )
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This sounds like a wonderful show. I hope to see it sometime soon. I love political theater!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Police Trying to Start a Riot
