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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2007 : 03:31:15
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I loath and despise that wretched bug to distraction, and fervently desire that they all, each and every one, get savagely devoured by ravening pipistrelles!
Why, you ask, do I feel so fulsome about such an innocuous insect? Well, I'll tell you: there are few evolutionary statements that have been more blown out of proportion by the creato-numbnuts than the very simple color phase transition that began just after England's industrial revolution, and is currently occurring again.
For example, check out this recent bucket-full of mendacity: The Pepper moth theory is identical to the Ptolemy epicycle system.
Sun = Pepper moth
Other planets = other moths
The observed data of melanics in moths is founded upon the false notion of selective bird predation as the primary force. The pepper moth theory corresponds to the Sun in the Ptolemy system and the theory fits the data easily. However in order to harmonize the vast majority other moths (other planets) that are also melanic where bird predation and industrial pollution are not a factor at all, Majerus and other evolutionists must invent new theories (epicycles) to explain the otherwise unexplainable. When even epicycles won't help, the magic wand of "mutations" is used to explain the rest. The result is a basic theory with so many modifications (epicycle upon epicycle upon epicycle like Jupiter), that it is simply too complicated to be true. Is Majerus the echo spirit of Ptolemy?
The variation seen in the Pepper moth, is quite common in the natural world. For example white tail and mule deer are two breeds of the same species, and totally cross fertile. However they have slightly different coloration, quite different antlers and live in distinct habitats. Bird predation has about as much to do with the variation of melanics in Pepper moths, as it does in deer. Selective predation by birds upon the Pepper moth must be rejected along side of the false notion that the sun revolves around the earth. Evolutionists, like Ptolemy both took their theory down a dead end road, both are false. White Grizzlies (polar bears) life in the Arctic and dark Grizzlies live in the rocky mountains. Selective bird predation cannot explain moths, deer or bears etc. Evolutionists can no more explain the mechanism that produces the observed variation in bears and deer than they can the Pepper Moth. Creation, on the other hand, unlocks the key to understanding the pepper moth because God simply created moths, deer, dogs, cats, bears etc in the beginning with the genetic variation needed to produce what we are presently observing "against the stars". Like Ptolemy, Majerus' pepper moth theories do explain what we see, but both are wrong.
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I think that the schitk is to throw out so much convoluted hand-waving that not even the authors themselves understand it.
And here's the considerably more accurate Wiki on it, if it hasn't been surreptitiously edited while I wasn't looking -- and yes, I'm accusing leading creationists of exactly that sort of dishonesty. In Britain, the peppered moth is univoltine (i.e. it has one generation per year), whilst in south-eastern North America it is bivoltine (two generations per year). The lepidopteran life cycle consists of four stages: ova (eggs), several larval instars (caterpillars), pupae, which overwinter live in the soil, and imagines (adults). During the day, the moths cryptically rest on trees, where they are preyed on by birds.
The caterpillar is a twig mimic, varying in colour between green and brown. It goes into the soil late in the season, where it pupates in order to spend the winter. The imagines emerge from the pupae between late May and August, the males slightly before the females (this is common and expected from sexual selection). They emerge late in the day and dry their wings before flying that night.
The males fly every night of their lives in search of females, whereas the females release pheromones to attract males, only flying on the first night. Since the pheromone is carried by the wind, males tend to travel up the concentration gradient, i.e., towards the source. During flight, they are subject to predation by bats. The males guard the female from other males until she lays the eggs. The female lays about 2,000 pale-green ovoid eggs about 1 mm in length into crevices in bark with her ovipositor.
Resting behaviour
Figure 2a. Total number of observed moths = 59: Exposed trunk = 7; unexposed trunk = 7; trunk-branch joint = 23; branches = 22
Figure 2b. Total number of observed moths = 23: Exposed trunk =1; unexposed trunk =1; trunk branch join = 3; branches thicker than 5 centimetres diameter = 10; branches and twigs less thick than 5 centimetres = 8A mating pair or a lone individual will spend the day hiding from predators, particularly birds. In the case of the former, the male stays with the female to ensure paternity. The best evidence for resting positions is given by data collected by the peppered moth researcher Michael Majerus, and it is given in the accompanying charts. These data were originally published in Howlett and Majerus (1987), and an updated version published in Majerus (1998), who concluded that the moths rest in the upper part of the trees. Majerus notes:
Creationist critics of the peppered moth have often pointed to a statement made by Clarke et al. (1985): "... In 25 years we have only found two betularia on the tree trunks or walls adjacent to our traps, and none elsewhere". The reason now seems obvious. Few people spend their time looking for moths up in the trees. That is where peppered moths rest by day.
From their original data, Howlett and Majerus (1987) concluded that peppered moths generally rest in unexposed positions, using three main types of site. Firstly, a few inches below a branch-trunk joint on a tree trunk where the moth is in shadow; secondly, on the underside of branches and thirdly on foliate twigs. The above data would appear to support this.
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So, the only argument the creationists have is one from incredulity. They don't believe it, in the face of all evidential studies, therefore it cannot possibly be fact. Of course none of them have actually done any studies of their own on this or any other evolutionary topic beyond finding ways to twist the works of others into something that satisfies their flawed philosophy. Lying about the peppered moth, they think, is an excellent way to debunk the ToE. Thus, the "Piltdown Moth" has again become a rallying symbol for the leaders of the mindless, and should be EXTERMINATED! (Damn. Never a Dalek around when you need one.)
Here are a pair of the little offenders.
Somebody fetch the flyswatter!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 04:18:18 [Permalink]
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I can't see why all the hard feelings toward these innocent moths, even though they are co-opted by Creationists. It's probably not deliberate on the moths' part to associate with such lower creatures.
In fact, the Creationists have, as you pointed out, only hand-waved: "... simply too complicated to be true, oh, my little brain hurts!" In fact, all science must be false by this standard.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2007 : 05:26:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I can't see why all the hard feelings toward these innocent moths, even though they are co-opted by Creationists. It's probably not deliberate on the moths' part to associate with such lower creatures.
In fact, the Creationists have, as you pointed out, only hand-waved: "... simply too complicated to be true, oh, my little brain hurts!" In fact, all science must be false by this standard.
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The moths had the misfortune to get themselves mentioned in high school text books, thus all the holy hyperbole and histrionics. It is their fault that this crap has insulted the intelligence of anyone who thinks for his/herself, and generally sullied public discourse as well. If they hadn't been on the spot, it wouldn't have happened and the creationists might have come up with something interesting enough that it wouldn't be used to line a bird cage for at least a week.
Because, you see, there is nothing unusual nor exciting about the peppered moth's color change. I can come up with a better example of evolution adapting a species in some minor way to better fit it's changing enviornment, easily. In fact, Nature's full of them and has done it to all species, in one way or another. How 'bout the sickle cell phenomina in Africa that protects those who have it from malaria, fer 'xample?
The moth is just too easy to write distortions about. "Ptolemy epicycle system" indeed -- be still my rolling eyes!
EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE....!
Edited to inquire as to whether you found the second moth in the image.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 09/02/2007 05:29:46 |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2007 : 07:10:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Edited to inquire as to whether you found the second moth in the image. |
Yeah, it's left wing tip is about to goose the dark moth.
And as far as I know the Mule Deer, Odocoileus hemionus, is not the same species as a White-tailed Deer, Odocoileus virginianus. They may be able to interbreed, but that does not mean that they are the same species.
But them dumbass creationists will continually lie to promote their cause.
Isn't that supposed to be a sin or sumthin'? |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 07:28:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Originally posted by filthy
Edited to inquire as to whether you found the second moth in the image. |
Yeah, it's left wing tip is about to goose the dark moth.
And as far as I know the Mule Deer, Odocoileus hemionus, is not the same species as a White-tailed Deer, Odocoileus virginianus. They may be able to interbreed, but that does not mean that they are the same species.
But them dumbass creationists will continually lie to promote their cause.
Isn't that supposed to be a sin or sumthin'?
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Yup. They say that you can go to hell for lyin' same as you can stealin'. Good catch on that moth. My eye is pretty well trained and it took me a little while.
An excellent example of cross breeding genera is between the rattlesnakes of Crotalus and Sistrurus. I have found an hybrid of Crotalus horridus and Sistrurus catenatus, the timber rattler and the eastern massasuga, in the field, and these crosses are frequently done in captivity -- why, I don't know.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 09:48:03 [Permalink]
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Yes, and as soon as I've finished off those damned moths, I'm a'comin' after him!
Edited to add: Here's the ID take on it: Exhuming the Peppered Mummy
By: Jonathan Wells
Discovery Institute
August 30, 2007
A friend of mine tells me that the only things he remembers about evolution from his high school biology course are photos of black and white peppered moths resting on light and dark tree trunks. They were presented as the classic case of Darwinian evolution in action, explaining how a trait that enhances survival could be acquired through an unguided material process.
Throughout the second half of the twentieth century, most biology textbooks featured photos of peppered moths (scientific name: Biston betularia) on tree trunks.1 Canadian textbook-writer Bob Ritter explained why in 1999: High school students are “very concrete in the way they learn,” he said. “The advantage of this example of natural selection is that it is extremely visual.”2
Soon after 2000, however, the peppered myth succumbed to mounting scientific criticisms. The most embarrassing was that peppered moths in the wild don't normally rest on tree trunks, and the textbook photos had been staged – as The New York Times pointed out in an article on scientific fakery in 2002.3 Darwinists trying to save the peppered myth turned what should have been a quick and merciful death into a long and painful demise, but it expired anyway. Most biology textbooks have now dropped it entirely.
Then, on August 23, 2007, Cambridge University biologist Michael Majerus disinterred the corpse. In a lecture in Sweden, Majerus announced he had found new evidence that peppered moths are “proof of Darwinian evolution.” The “fact of Darwinian evolution,” in turn, shows that humans invented God and that there will be “no second coming; no helping hand from on high.”4
Wow, all that from some moths! What's going on? |
And the Moonie continues on to give yet another example of kneejerk denial. All for a sad, little moth that nobody really cares about.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 09/02/2007 10:47:10 |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 11:27:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
...Crotalus horridus and Sistrurus catenatus... |
You used to find both of those here in Ontario, but sadly C. horridus was last seen on the Niagara gorge about sixty years ago.  The Eastern Massasauga is doing okay along the eastern shore of Georgian Bay, but the Hamilton area population seems to be gone, and the Ojibway Prairie population in Windsor is barely holding on. In fact the government recently introduced a couple of dozen there because they hadn't found any for a while. There is another remnant population in a peat bog/swamp area near Port Colborne, near the east end of Lake Erie, but I don't know how healthy it is. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 11:45:55 [Permalink]
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It is tough when an apparent example of a belief is shown to so easily be disproven.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 11:50:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Originally posted by filthy
...Crotalus horridus and Sistrurus catenatus... |
You used to find both of those here in Ontario, but sadly C. horridus was last seen on the Niagara gorge about sixty years ago. The Eastern Massasauga is doing okay along the eastern shore of Georgian Bay, but the Hamilton area population seems to be gone, and the Ojibway Prairie population in Windsor is barely holding on. In fact the government recently introduced a couple of dozen there because they hadn't found any for a while. There is another remnant population in a peat bog/swamp area near Port Colborne, near the east end of Lake Erie, but I don't know how healthy it is.
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Sad indeed. We are losing our rattlesnakes here as well, although some states are serious about enforcing protection laws. The little hybrid I found was during an autumn hibernacula study (on my own dime, but I did get an article out of it) in upstate NY. I sort'a wish I'd kept it, ignoring a few state laws, as it was an interesting and rather pretty animal, but after an examination and a few B&W closeups, mainly to get scale counts, I let it go. This was in 1971 and I don't know if that hibernacula still exists.
It takes at least 25 individuals to make a barely viable population of these snakes.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 17:08:16 [Permalink]
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It took me forever to finally see the second, lighter, pepper moth. I found two Vigin Mary's and a gray alien first.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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I hate the peppered moth!
