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Yojimbo99
New Member
USA
33 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2007 : 10:05:13 [Permalink]
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| I found this site that shows a break down of state by state vaccination laws, but I cant say to how current it is, but by a quick glance it seems that all states allow for the playing of the religous card for by passing vaccination laws. |
It's not so much wanting to die, but controlling that moment, choosing your own way. - GG Allin
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 12:14:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, there are currently no government mandated vaccinations that I am aware of. Do you know of any? |
In DC, kids who aren't up-to-date on their vaccinations don't get to go to public schools. There are news stories about it every year as the deadline approaches.
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Yes, but the vaccinations are not mandated by law. Also if I remember correctly, various forms can be filled out to exempt this mandate of the schools.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 12:21:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Yojimbo99
I found this site that shows a break down of state by state vaccination laws, but I cant say to how current it is, but by a quick glance it seems that all states allow for the playing of the religous card for by passing vaccination laws.
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Great find. From the D.C. example Dave gave, it looks to be very easy to become exempt from this mandate.
D.C. Code § 38-506 (2002)
§ 38-506. Exemption from certification [Formerly § 31-506]
No certification of immunization shall be required for the admission to a school of a student:
(1) For whom the responsible person objects in good faith and in writing, to the chief official of the school, that immunization would violate his or her religious beliefs; or
(2) For whom the school has written certification by a private physician, his or her representative, or the public health authorities that immunization is medically inadvisable. |
All one needs to do is write a letter, or have a doctor write a letter.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 13:00:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
All one needs to do is write a letter, or have a doctor write a letter. |
But the letter itself is also mandated. If a child isn't in compliance with the law - either by being vaccinated or having a letter - they don't get into school. Just a handful of years ago, it made the news big-time because there were hundreds of kids who were uncompliant in DC alone.
But what's the point of this digression, Jerome? I presented what I think should be done in response to filthy's query. If the vaccination and other public-health laws aren't tight enough, I think we should strengthen them. What do you think? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 14:25:37 [Permalink]
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Dave said:
But what's the point of this digression, Jerome? I presented what I think should be done in response to filthy's query. If the vaccination and other public-health laws aren't tight enough, I think we should strengthen them. What do you think? |
I certainly do not think they should be tightened. This would give the government to power to mandate questionable vaccinations for the benefit of companies selling the vaccinations. A good example of this attempt would be the circumstance in Texas recently. Did not work out, yet if people were not paying attention?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 15:17:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I certainly do not think they should be tightened. This would give the government to power to mandate questionable vaccinations for the benefit of companies selling the vaccinations. |
Only if the law is shortsighted enough to mandate questionable vaccinations. Why should it be? I certainly don't share your fear of government, Jerome, so it's not much of a motivator for someone like me to short the public health. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 15:45:02 [Permalink]
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Back to what Edwards said, I have no problem with this at all. If you want to opt in to such a system you should abide by the rules that make it possible. If you don't want it, don't participate. No one's holding a gun to your head. Seems simple enough.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 18:30:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Are you stating that the HPV vaccination is "questionable" and "for the benefit of companies selling the vaccinations"?
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Yes to both questions.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 18:33:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by @tomic
Back to what Edwards said, I have no problem with this at all. If you want to opt in to such a system you should abide by the rules that make it possible. If you don't want it, don't participate. No one's holding a gun to your head. Seems simple enough.
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When it is mandated by the government a gun is held to your head if you do not comply.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 18:42:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I certainly do not think they should be tightened. This would give the government to power to mandate questionable vaccinations for the benefit of companies selling the vaccinations. |
Only if the law is shortsighted enough to mandate questionable vaccinations. Why should it be? I certainly don't share your fear of government, Jerome, so it's not much of a motivator for someone like me to short the public health.
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I have zero fear of the government. I think this power given to government is a detriment to society as a whole. If I were to think about these issues from my self benefit I would not rally behind fewer federal taxes; as I make my living from those payed by the federal government.
I am not the tinfoil hat wearing person you think I am. I am just honest in my thoughts.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 19:24:21 [Permalink]
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The point is, Jerome, that one's individual right to swing one's fist ends at the tip of another person's nose. Unvaccinated kids are unpredictably swinging fists. As a society, we all benefit when there are fewer of them. And the only mechanisms we have for enforcement are our governments.
Similarly for all other health care. Even if everyone were to save responsibly so there'd be no need for insurance or government programs, and even if there were a free market for health care, society as a whole benefits when diseases are detected earlier, because they then cost less to treat. And frankly, the less costly health care is, the more likely I'd be to unreservedly mandate annual checkups.
And, Jerome, the fact that I said you fear the government doesn't mean that I think you're wearing a tinfoil hat. There are many shades of gray. You should trying seeing them sometime. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 19:43:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
The point is, Jerome, that one's individual right to swing one's fist ends at the tip of another person's nose. |
Agreed!
| Unvaccinated kids are unpredictably swinging fists. As a society, we all benefit when there are fewer of them. And the only mechanisms we have for enforcement are our governments. |
What vaccines? At what cost? To who's benefit? These are the questions that must be answered prior to governmental mandates.
| Similarly for all other health care. Even if everyone were to save responsibly so there'd be no need for insurance or government programs, and even if there were a free market for health care, society as a whole benefits when diseases are detected earlier, because they then cost less to treat. And frankly, the less costly health care is, the more likely I'd be to unreservedly mandate annual checkups. |
If the cost is born by the individual than society has no say. If society decided to bear the cost, then society than will choose to mandate oppressive restrictions on individual behavior. If I am healthy, why should my neighbor be allowed to eat chips and drink pop if I am to pay for their health care?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 20:01:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
| Unvaccinated kids are unpredictably swinging fists. As a society, we all benefit when there are fewer of them. And the only mechanisms we have for enforcement are our governments. |
What vaccines? At what cost? To who's benefit? These are the questions that must be answered prior to governmental mandates. |
And nobody is saying otherwise. Again, Jerome, it's important for you to be able to see more than black and white. Saying that the government should be able to mandate vaccines is not the same as saying they should be able to do so willy-nilly.| If the cost is born by the individual than society has no say. |
The cost is never borne solely by the individual, except for prosaic things like hangnails. Whether that slight fever you have today turns out to be nothing more than a sinus infection tomorrow or a full-blown case of SARS can have a tremendous impact on society as a whole if you decide to go to work, regardless of where the money for a doctor's visit comes from.| If society decided to bear the cost, then society than will choose to mandate oppressive restrictions on individual behavior. |
It's this sort of black-and-white thinking that gives me the impession that you fear the government, Jerome.| If I am healthy, why should my neighbor be allowed to eat chips and drink pop if I am to pay for their health care? |
I'm all for mandating risk insurance, actually. Want to go skiing? Then pony up for ski insurance, so that if you break your leg, it won't affect my premiums if we happen to have the same HMO. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2007 : 21:44:20 [Permalink]
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LOOK A CAMELS NOSE UNDER THE TENT!
Health care tyranny. What a joke. I bet it passes in five years.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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John Edwards steps in shit.
