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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2007 : 20:57:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
And you were shown (and refused to acknowledge) that that "fact" is wildly wrong. You just keep on repeating the Republican lies, Jerome, digging yourself deeper into your hole. |
Which fallacy of argument is it when one tries to present a false association? |
I presented no false association. You have presented no science, and you have presented lies which were dreamt up by Republicans. At no time did I imply that you are a Republican. At no time did I imply that your arguments are wrong because they come from Republicans. The demonstration that the ideas you have presented are false was independent of their source, but the source is an important piece of background information.
Where is the science, Jerome? Quit trying to deflect the argument, and present the science that you claim exists. It is not in the press release or in the list itself, as we've already seen, but you claim the science exists. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 20:58:22 [Permalink]
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Jerome:
Which fallacy of argument is it when one tries to present a false association? |
It's called "The Gnome Fallacy" on this forum. Aptly named too... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2007 : 21:02:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Jerome:
Which fallacy of argument is it when one tries to present a false association? |
It's called "The Gnome Fallacy" on this forum. Aptly named too...
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2007 : 21:07:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I presented no false association. You have presented no science, and you have presented lies which were dreamt up by Republicans. |
Which Republicans and which lies.
Do you have evidence of these assertions?
You are claiming that I am repeating "Republican lies".
Do you have evidence of lies?
Do you have evidence that these lies are dreamt up by Republicans?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 21:10:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
I presented no false association. You have presented no science, and you have presented lies which were dreamt up by Republicans. |
Which Republicans and which lies.
Do you have evidence of these assertions?
You are claiming that I am repeating "Republican lies".
Do you have evidence of lies?
Do you have evidence that these lies are dreamt up by Republicans? |
Ahem. "Quit trying to deflect the argument, and present the science that you claim exists." |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 21:14:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Which Republicans and which lies.
Do you have evidence of these assertions?
You are claiming that I am repeating "Republican lies".
Do you have evidence of lies?
Do you have evidence that these lies are dreamt up by Republicans? |
Where is the science, Jerome? Quit trying to deflect the argument, and present the science that you claim exists. It is not in the press release or in the list itself, as we've already seen, but you claim the science exists. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 21:26:02 [Permalink]
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http://hudson.org/files/pdf_upload/9-07%20Avery%20Global%20Warming.pdf
I know your answer. The facts do not count because you do not like the presenter.
Try and prove they are presenting a lie. It is cowardly and dishonest in it self to claim lier and provide ZERO evidence.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2007 : 21:47:09 [Permalink]
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| The List of More Than 500 Scientists Documenting Doubts of Man-Made Global Warming Scares** **Citation of the work of the following scientists does not imply that they necessarily support our conclusions. |
Bolding mine.
The bolded disclaimer of their meta-analysis is because they are presenting papers that conclude that there are natural warming and cooling cycles. No one argues with that conclusion.
What the scientists, who's papers they list might argue with is that the current warming is entirely due to natural and not any man made causes.
In other words, they admit that the scientists, who's papers they site, might agree with a consensus that they say doesn't exist.
This is nothing but spin…
Edited to add:
And since they don't say or even know what the scientists actually think, and if they do they aren't saying, this spin is based on nothing at all...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 22:20:20 [Permalink]
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So, I randomly chose one scientist from the list. Cited was this:
Nicolas Caillon et al., “Timing of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature Changes Across Termination III,” Science 299 (2003): 1728-31.
I found this on
Nicolas Caillon's website, which is translated from French:
CO2 emissions
Outstanding facts
dispatch of 04-06-2007
Two articles published Thursday May 17 reveal alarming results on the evolution of the CO2 rate present in the atmosphere. This evolution is the result of the emissions (fossile fuel, deforestation), balanced by the carbon wells (oceans, continental ecosystems) which absorb about half of the emissions.
According to an international collaboration implying Philippe Ciais of the LSCE, the emissions of CO2 of fossile fuels increased more quickly than envisaged. These analyses are the article object published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The other study, published in Science, undertaken by an international team of scientists specialized in the observation and the modeling of the oceanic and atmospheric carbon cycle, whose team of the LSCE, shows a saturation of the carbon well in the Antarctic Ocean. The intensification of the winds in this zone leads to a mixing of surface water with deep oceanic water, rich in CO2, thus limiting pumping by surface water of atmospheric CO2.
These two results go in the direction of an acceleration of the increase in atmospheric CO2 during next decades. |
In general, a look around his site finds absolutely nothing that would suggest that he agrees with the conclusions of the report supplied by Jerome. And I am willing to bet that this is typical of what we will find if we dig deeper…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 01:24:47 [Permalink]
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Did someone mention Republical lies? I love Republican lies! There are so many of them and they are so easily shot down....
Most polititions, it seems, tend to try and sugar-coat the GW pill, but the Republicans and their imbecilic syncophants have cornered the market on outright lying. Here's one of the most noxious liars ever to slime up the halls of Congress; Sen. James Inhofe, of Oklahoma. One notes that he seems to only appear on those shows that are sympatheitc to his far-right point of view, and one considers that he keeps getting re-elected because as long as he is in DC, he's not in OK. Here are some prime examples of his utter crap.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 09/19/2007 01:27:00 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 05:13:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Did someone mention Republical lies? I love Republican lies! There are so many of them and they are so easily shot down....
Most polititions, it seems, tend to try and sugar-coat the GW pill, but the Republicans and their imbecilic syncophants have cornered the market on outright lying. Here's one of the most noxious liars ever to slime up the halls of Congress; Sen. James Inhofe, of Oklahoma. One notes that he seems to only appear on those shows that are sympatheitc to his far-right point of view, and one considers that he keeps getting re-elected because as long as he is in DC, he's not in OK. Here are some prime examples of his utter crap.
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Your second link is claiming the Senator is a lier with this quote as evidence:
| Actually, “all of the recent science” — without exception — accepts that global warming is real and caused by humans. |
One can not use a lie to prove that someone else is a lier.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 05:27:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
So, I randomly chose one scientist from the list. Cited was this:
Nicolas Caillon et al., “Timing of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature Changes Across Termination III,” Science 299 (2003): 1728-31.
I found this on
Nicolas Caillon's website, which is translated from French:
CO2 emissions
Outstanding facts
dispatch of 04-06-2007
Two articles published Thursday May 17 reveal alarming results on the evolution of the CO2 rate present in the atmosphere. This evolution is the result of the emissions (fossile fuel, deforestation), balanced by the carbon wells (oceans, continental ecosystems) which absorb about half of the emissions.
According to an international collaboration implying Philippe Ciais of the LSCE, the emissions of CO2 of fossile fuels increased more quickly than envisaged. These analyses are the article object published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The other study, published in Science, undertaken by an international team of scientists specialized in the observation and the modeling of the oceanic and atmospheric carbon cycle, whose team of the LSCE, shows a saturation of the carbon well in the Antarctic Ocean. The intensification of the winds in this zone leads to a mixing of surface water with deep oceanic water, rich in CO2, thus limiting pumping by surface water of atmospheric CO2.
These two results go in the direction of an acceleration of the increase in atmospheric CO2 during next decades. |
In general, a look around his site finds absolutely nothing that would suggest that he agrees with the conclusions of the report supplied by Jerome. And I am willing to bet that this is typical of what we will find if we dig deeper…
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Your quote is not the science referred to in the documnet I presented.
Hereis the PDF file under the heading "Paléoclimats". It is unfortunately in French.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 05:39:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by filthy
Did someone mention Republical lies? I love Republican lies! There are so many of them and they are so easily shot down....
Most polititions, it seems, tend to try and sugar-coat the GW pill, but the Republicans and their imbecilic syncophants have cornered the market on outright lying. Here's one of the most noxious liars ever to slime up the halls of Congress; Sen. James Inhofe, of Oklahoma. One notes that he seems to only appear on those shows that are sympatheitc to his far-right point of view, and one considers that he keeps getting re-elected because as long as he is in DC, he's not in OK. Here are some prime examples of his utter crap.
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Your second link is claiming the Senator is a lier with this quote as evidence:
| Actually, “all of the recent science” — without exception — accepts that global warming is real and caused by humans. |
One can not use a lie to prove that someone else is a lier.
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We've been through this before, Jerome. Humans are a partial cause of GW; an influencing factor. And how exactly is the statement a lie? All of the recent science does point in just that direction.
Inhofe is a liar and you're shining his shoes.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 06:26:18 [Permalink]
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Fil, anyone's a liar who doesn't agree with Jerome's personal, or borrowed, prevarications. It's the predictable dead end of every losing argument he has.
Basically, the lie that Jerome has grabbed onto like a drowning man clutching life-ring in a storm, is like the following:
Imagine that I commissioned a "study" of several hundred theologists, all of whom wrote about the life of Jesus. Now, if I were to then to point out that none mentioned the Hebrews leaving Egypt, and cite these theologists' papers as evidence of widespread "doubt" about the Exodus, that would be similar to what Jerome is supporting. Then, when inevitably attacked, I could point out the prestigious degrees and honors of the theologians being "defamed." (Last, I would run for cover before those very theologians came after me with torches, pitchforks, tar, feathers, and rope.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/19/2007 06:30:16 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 06:34:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Fil, anyone's a liar who doesn't agree with Jerome's personal, or borrowed, prevarications. It's the predictable dead end of every losing argument he has.
Basically, the lie that Jerome has grabbed onto like a drowning man clutching life-ring in a storm, is like the following:
Imagine that I commissioned a "study" of several hundred theologists, all of whom wrote about the life of Jesus. Now, if I were to then to point out that none mentioned the Hebrews leaving Egypt, and cite these theologists' papers as evidence of widespread "doubt" about the Exodus, that would be similar to what Jerome is supporting. Then, when inevitably attacked, I could point out the prestigious degrees and honors of the theologians being "defamed." (Last, I would run for cover before those very theologians came after me with torches, pitchforks, tar, feathers, and rope.)
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Are you stating that this is a factual statement?
| Actually, “all of the recent science” — without exception — accepts that global warming is real and caused by humans. |
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Consensus Falling Apart by the Day
