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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2007 : 16:33:54 [Permalink]
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This should be fun!
Be right back.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 16:43:49 [Permalink]
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You answered 58 out of 60 correctly — 96.67 %
Average score for this quiz during September: 75.0%
Average score since September 18, 2007: 75.0% |
I got two wrong:
13) The struggle between President Andrew Johnson and the Radical Republicans was mainly over:
38) What kind of government is a junta?
Opps!
I should have taken my time.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 17:14:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
The only thing history teaches us is that we are doomed to repeat it, whether we know of history or not.
Seriously though, history is a very important subject and relevant to almost any political discussion. Knowing the date of a battle is not history, and I hope to god no one thinks it is. Certainly it is a part of it, but it is comparable to arithmetic in math.
Also, anyone who goes to college for a reason other than to learn more about the world around them is going for the wrong reason and does not belong in college. That's my idealistic opinion anyways.
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The point is that a well rounded education that produces independent thinkers is not the goal of our current education system.
Our current system is designed to produce "button pushers", highly specialized skill sets.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 17:25:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
The only thing history teaches us is that we are doomed to repeat it, whether we know of history or not.
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History allows us the make current choices based on the outcomes of others previous choices.
Outside of a world wide catastrophe; history is vitally important to the advancement of humanity.
It is also extremely useful to the individual making personal choices as one moves through life with the knowledge of the consequences of others past choices. This knowledge of history also allows the individual to see; through stained concave glass, the future. This is personally, locally, and globally.
The past is the imperfect sight of the future.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 18:23:21 [Permalink]
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I'll certainly disagree with Jerome that somehow this proves a great "failure" of America's colleges. If the goal of college were to learn bulleted trivia as seen in this quiz, then college would more resemble Jeopardy! than anything. Most college history departments are trying to stray from making class nothing but a litany of dates and names-- the exact sort of thing this quiz is emphasizing.
I'd also disagree with some of the findings noted in the study. They argue that "Greater Learning about America Goes Hand-in-Hand with More Active Citizenship," but is this really a case of causality? I'm more inclined to think that the reverse is true-- that good citizens are more likely to have a greater knowledge of historical trivia (used only slightly as a pejorative) than the other way around. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2007 : 18:26:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'll certainly disagree with Jerome that somehow this proves a great "failure" of America's colleges. If the goal of college were to learn bulleted trivia as seen in this quiz, then college would more resemble Jeopardy! than anything. Most college history departments are trying to stray from making class nothing but a litany of dates and names-- the exact sort of thing this quiz is emphasizing.
I'd also disagree with some of the findings noted in the study. They argue that "Greater Learning about America Goes Hand-in-Hand with More Active Citizenship," but is this really a case of causality? I'm more inclined to think that the reverse is true-- that good citizens are more likely to have a greater knowledge of historical trivia (used only slightly as a pejorative) than the other way around.
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The fact is if one understand history, these are trivial questions. That is the point.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 18:42:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'll certainly disagree with Jerome that somehow this proves a great "failure" of America's colleges. If the goal of college were to learn bulleted trivia as seen in this quiz, then college would more resemble Jeopardy! than anything. Most college history departments are trying to stray from making class nothing but a litany of dates and names-- the exact sort of thing this quiz is emphasizing.
I'd also disagree with some of the findings noted in the study. They argue that "Greater Learning about America Goes Hand-in-Hand with More Active Citizenship," but is this really a case of causality? I'm more inclined to think that the reverse is true-- that good citizens are more likely to have a greater knowledge of historical trivia (used only slightly as a pejorative) than the other way around.
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The fact is if one understand history, these are trivial questions. That is the point. |
I'm not sure I understand. But I'd say that even if someone doesn't recall that Common Sense was the name of Thomas Paine's pamphlet, that is hardly an indicator of if they got a good college education. Indeed, as I took the quiz I continually thought to myself that these questions were banal and often of little value. I mean, really. I honestly couldn't care less what Plato thought in the Republic. This doesn't mean it's not worth reading or talking about, and I'm glad there are people who do that. But me knowing or not knowing about it (and I took enough philosophy courses in college that I could have minored in it-- except that once I'd taken that many, I realized that I hated philosophy) isn't a sign of how America's colleges are doing. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:07:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'm not sure I understand. |
If one understands history, the answers to these questions would be like knowing the names of your siblings.
But I'd say that even if someone doesn't recall that Common Sense was the name of Thomas Paine's pamphlet, that is hardly an indicator of if they got a good college education. Indeed, as I took the quiz I continually thought to myself that these questions were banal and often of little value. I mean, really. I honestly couldn't care less what Plato thought in the Republic. This doesn't mean it's not worth reading or talking about, and I'm glad there are people who do that. But me knowing or not knowing about it (and I took enough philosophy courses in college that I could have minored in it-- except that once I'd taken that many, I realized that I hated philosophy) isn't a sign of how America's colleges are doing.
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You do not care because you never understood why you should care. The ability to think and understand things outside of a predetermined course is what one is missing by not understanding history.
This test has nothing to do with dates and book titles. It has everything to do with the fact that these factoids should be trivial. If one understood history they would be.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:09:07 [Permalink]
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Jerome said:
I got two wrong:
13) The struggle between President Andrew Johnson and the Radical Republicans was mainly over:
38) What kind of government is a junta? |
I'm sorry but this is perfect.
You got a great score on this test and yet you are not able to demonstrate even a modicum of critical thinking. You have demonstrated that you are gullible and completely unwilling to change your opinion when presented with clear evidence that you are wrong.
You are a poster boy for the antithesis of your argument.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:11:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
Jerome said:
I got two wrong:
13) The struggle between President Andrew Johnson and the Radical Republicans was mainly over:
38) What kind of government is a junta? |
I'm sorry but this is perfect.
You got a great score on this test and yet you are not able to demonstrate even a modicum of critical thinking. You have demonstrated that you are gullible and completely unwilling to change your opinion when presented with clear evidence that you are wrong.
You are a poster boy for the antithesis of your argument.
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???
I do not understand at all what you are saying and the connections you are making.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:22:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You do not care because you never understood why you should care. The ability to think and understand things outside of a predetermined course is what one is missing by not understanding history. |
I'm confused-- are you insulting me? About my knowledge of history?
| This test has nothing to do with dates and book titles. It has everything to do with the fact that these factoids should be trivial. If one understood history they would be. |
I rather disagree. Or perhaps better, I'd say that students have better things to do with their time and energy than know dates and trivia (which they can look up anyhow), and focus on larger questions and hone more important skills.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:23:53 [Permalink]
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I took the quiz mostly to see what was on it. Incidentally, I scored 70%. Points I'd like to make:
-As an educator who already thought there is too much emphasis on standardized tests as a measure of education and intelligence, this test only deepened that opinion. This particular test was an incredibly lame measure. For example, for ,most questions I answered wrong, I was knowledgeable enough to narrow it down to two possible answers. And only one question totally left me with a blank. But my answers to those questions are scored just as wrong as someone who has no idea and guesses randomly. Other problems with this particular test have been noted by others here, such as that remembering the name of "Common Sense" isn't as important as the ideas and how those ideas fit into the founding of the nation.
-I agree with many here who have argued that many of the details questioned on this test are not necessary in-of-themselves to a well-rounded education. Unless you have an exceptionally good memory, info you don't use, you lose. This is why a 6th grader may very well know more about basic and general biology than the average adult; the kid recently learned the info, while the adult has gone years, perhaps even decades, without discussing or needing to think about what the three segments of an arthropod are. I read the news regularly, wrote a weekly opinion column on political issues for 3 years, and have been involved in community and political activism for 11 years, but I only scored a 70%. It wasn't so much that I never learned the answers that I got wrong, but rather, I didn't retain the knowledge that I didn't need.
-This was not a history test. While most of the questions were about history, others were about philosophy and economics. It is rather reaching to say this question is essential to well-rounded knowledge of American History: Which statement is a common argument against the claim that “man cannot know things”? This is clearly a philosophical question. The philosophy in question might somewhat relate to American history, but to call this a question about history is just silly. About as silly as the question itself, given how much it simplifies the philosophical ideas it mentions. (Incidentally, this was one I got correct, and the answer was: D. Man trusts his ability to know in order to reject his ability to know.)
-How the hell is a question such as this, one of objective, historical fact? Free markets typically secure more economic prosperity than government's centralized planning because: Can we say loaded?
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/19/2007 19:29:46 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:27:53 [Permalink]
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Jerome wrote: | The point is that a well rounded education that produces independent thinkers is not the goal of our current education system. |
And your initial post helps support this point how?
| Our current system is designed to produce "button pushers", highly specialized skill sets. |
Yes, such as when they require standardized, multiple-choice tests as a measure of education.
| The fact is if one understand history, these are trivial questions. That is the point. |
I think you might have meant easy, not trivial. Trivial means unimportant. If you think these questions can measure a quality understanding of history, obviously you do not regard them as trivial.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/19/2007 19:31:12 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:40:10 [Permalink]
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Is it more important to know that Albert Einstein discovered the Theory of Relativity, or to understand the meaning and how to apply it?
In software programming, is it more important to know the date when the linked list data structure was first used, or to know when to use the structure in your own work?
I ask rhetorically, of course. These type of tests don't really measure anything other than memorization, which is not a measure of anything significant. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Schools Fail Again
