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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2007 : 11:39:02 [Permalink]
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| The cost of manufactured goods in the U.S. is directly related to inflation caused by the influx of too much money by the FED. |
The reason that our cloths are not manufactured here is because the standard of living is so high, even the unemployed in the US are way above the standard of living of the people working in the sweat shops.
| I don't run a deficit with my grocery store. Unless you mean I don't sell stuff to the grocery store, but that would be an absurd comparison. |
It is not a comparison, it is the same thing. |
No, it is not even close. Do you really think that the trade between countries is the same as a retailer and a consumer. If our trade deficit became a surplus with china for a while that would hurt niether China or the US. If on the other hand the grocery store started selling items for a loss the store would go out of business.
You have a very simplistic view of economics, it is like you think that there are no interactions. Economics is incredibly complicated which is why there are so many schools of thought on the subject. But, I forgot your opinion is the right one.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2007 : 22:31:16 [Permalink]
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The grocery store comparison is invalid because a national trade deficit is the net result of trade among many entities. The individual who has a "trade deficit" with the grocery store has a "trade surplus" with their employer. If an inidvidual consistently runs a net trade deficit overall, they rapidly get into debt as BPS hinted at in the OP.
What is being overlooked in this thread is the huge govenrment deficits resulting in part from tax cuts and in part from exsessive government spending, especially the Iraq war. The Chinese government now holds a significant amount of US debt.
BTW the Canadian dollar has now passed par with the US dollar.
I didn't even have to quote mine to get a Jerome quote for my sig. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
| Edited by - Ghost_Skeptic on 09/21/2007 22:41:00 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2007 : 22:47:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
The grocery store comparison is invalid because a national trade deficit is the net result of trade among many entities. The individual who has a "trade deficit" with the grocery store has a "trade surplus" with their employer. If an inidvidual consistently runs a net trade deficit overall, they rapidly get into debt. |
You are mixing improper values and making calculations. You do not have a debt with the grocery, you pay for your goods. The cumulative individual people buying overseas and the cumulative people buying from America does not create governmental debt.
What is being overlooked in this thread is the huge govenrment deficits resulting in part from tax cuts and in part from exsessive government spending, especially the Iraq war. The Chinese government now holds a significant amount of US debt.
BTW the Canadian dollar has now passed par with the US dollar.
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Government debt occurs when the government spends more than it collects. The tax cuts were minor in relation to the amount of extra money being spent. If the tax cuts were not in place the debt would be almost the same.
This is how it works:
The government creates bonds when it spends more than it has.
People, foreign governments, investment firms, and the Federal Reserve buy the bonds.
When the FED buys bonds it buys them with created money. This money is then circulated into the economy creating a larger amount of newly created money thus causing the value of the dollar to decrease.
Governmental debt occurs from borrowing.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 22:49:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by furshur
Jerome said:
Here is some current headlines which, if contemplated over, will bring an understanding that this war was carried out correctly. |
No understanding arrived from your links. Could you spell it out to those of us who do not have your understanding.
My understanding is that this war is ultimately about protecting the oil supply to the US, but that is not what your links are about so, again please enlighten me.
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Central universal economic control. The argument can be made as to the advantages or disadvantages of this idea, but this is the goal. You are correct about the oil. Oil is a tool of control.
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From James Randi's Swift | It's so strangely satisfying to the woo-woos to believe that ominous individuals and organizations plot to control them; paranoia is a favorite illness. To know that they are able to bear up despite secret cabals that seek to keep them from perfect health, financial success, and freedom, gives them pseudo-heroic status, it seems. |
That about sums it up. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 23:03:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by furshur
Jerome said:
Here is some current headlines which, if contemplated over, will bring an understanding that this war was carried out correctly. |
No understanding arrived from your links. Could you spell it out to those of us who do not have your understanding.
My understanding is that this war is ultimately about protecting the oil supply to the US, but that is not what your links are about so, again please enlighten me.
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Central universal economic control. The argument can be made as to the advantages or disadvantages of this idea, but this is the goal. You are correct about the oil. Oil is a tool of control.
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From James Randi's Swift | It's so strangely satisfying to the woo-woos to believe that ominous individuals and organizations plot to control them; paranoia is a favorite illness. To know that they are able to bear up despite secret cabals that seek to keep them from perfect health, financial success, and freedom, gives them pseudo-heroic status, it seems. |
That about sums it up.
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Ever read The Open Conspiracy by H.G.Wells written in 1928?
| It seemed to me that all over the world intelligent people were waking up to the indignity and absurdity of being endangered, restrained, and impoverished, by a mere uncritical adhesion to traditional governments, traditional ideas of economic life, and traditional forms of behaviour, and that these awaking intelligent people must constitute first a protest and then a creative resistance to the inertia that was stifling and threatening us. |
You think this is some new idea of woo?
This is the ideal of Star Trek. It is the natural path of human societal development; larger group structures.
Calling me a woo is like calling the idea of the nation state woo 4000 years ago.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 05:08:02 [Permalink]
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| You're so woo, it's not even funny. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 11:48:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is the ideal of Star Trek. It is the natural path of human societal development; larger group structures.
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Communism!
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 12:01:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Calling me a woo is like calling the idea of the nation state woo 4000 years ago. |
I'm not sure that ca. 2000 BC, we can talk about nation states. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 15:32:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
You're so woo, it's not even funny.
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Pointing out that respected people have written and spoken about unifying the world is considered woo in your book?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/24/2007 : 15:35:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Calling me a woo is like calling the idea of the nation state woo 4000 years ago. |
I'm not sure that ca. 2000 BC, we can talk about nation states.
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Did you mean to write circa 2000 BCE?
I also do not understand what point you are making.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 18:22:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
You're so woo, it's not even funny.
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Pointing out that respected people have written and spoken about unifying the world is considered woo in your book?
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One unified world? As in one world government? That's some revelation.
And of course this.
The powerful conspirators are made up largely of the international bankers, and the Illuminati, which is a super-rich organization, which controls the mainstream media, workforce, education system, companies, banks, energy supplies and governments. They are controlled by the richest people in the world such as the super-rich Rothschild and Rockefeller families. They also hide behind many organizations such as the United Nations, the WTO and the Council on Foreign relations.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 18:31:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
One unified world? As in one world government? That's some revelation.
And of course this.
The powerful conspirators are made up largely of the international bankers, and the Illuminati, which is a super-rich organization, which controls the mainstream media, workforce, education system, companies, banks, energy supplies and governments. They are controlled by the richest people in the world such as the super-rich Rothschild and Rockefeller families. They also hide behind many organizations such as the United Nations, the WTO and the Council on Foreign relations.
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I personally think that a unified world would probably be a good thing for most people.
Do you disagree?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 18:56:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I personally think that a unified world would probably be a good thing for most people.
Do you disagree?
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No. Just trying to be supportive by suggesting a new direction for you to take this thread. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 19:07:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I personally think that a unified world would probably be a good thing for most people.
Do you disagree?
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No. Just trying to be supportive by suggesting a new direction for you to take this thread.
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O.K.; the failure of the almighty dollar will be a great legacy for Bush as this will be the catalyst for the conforming of divergent currency to a standard.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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GWB's Legacy: The failure of the almighty dollar
