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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 09/28/2007 : 04:59:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I felt a deep sense of pride when I heard Ahmadinejad speaking at Columbia University. In particular, this feeling came when the Iranian President, after suggesting that the Holocaust should be re-examined, was met with jeers and boos and then responded by asking why a country that supports freedom of speech would not promote it on this matter. |
I was very happy he was allowed to speak. When I heard the crowd react to his claim there were no homosexuals in Iran, I laughed too. 
| While this is all true, there are international sanctions, a UN call for them to stop refining uranium, and Russia and China have made some noise (albeit not as much as the USA) |
But what are these calls based on? Seems like policy is based on dislike for Iran's political leadership, it's rehotoric and it's position toward the US / Isreal more than anything Iran has actually done. | That said, I don't think it can be denied that Iran is hostile toward Israel, that at least their intention is to eventually develop nukes, and that they are a threat to the stability of the region. |
I don't really care if they are hostile to Isreal - that should not be the basis for US policy. Isreal has done plenty to earn the hostility of it's neighbors. And what is the basis to say Iran's nuclear program is a weapons program beyond doubt?
| The real reason I highly dislike the Iranian leadership is because they are religious nutjobs who oppress their own people |
I'm with you here, though through the late '90s Iran has lightened up a great deal on it's people. They're oppressed religously less than the Saudis for example. Bush's renewed hostility, starting with the Axis of Evil state of the union comment has given Iranian hardliners renewed influence. | But let's not ignore the fact that Ahmadinejad supports a fundamentalist regime. |
He's actually not particularly powerful these days as he's fallen out of favor with the clerical establishment. They apparently arn't impressed with his big fat mouth either. His rhetoric shouldn't be the basis for policy anyway - the political structure in Iran doesn't make for a very powerful president.
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-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 09/28/2007 05:00:29 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 05:09:49 [Permalink]
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| Let's not also forget that Iran might, just might, have a government that is better for everyone had the U.S. not been involved in their affairs. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 05:36:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Let's not also forget that Iran might, just might, have a government that is better for everyone had the U.S. not been involved in their affairs.
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Let us not forget that Iran might, just might, have a government better for everyone if Carter had the balls to nail them. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 05:41:47 [Permalink]
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Let us not forget that Iran might, just might, have a government better for everyone if Carter had the balls to nail them.
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Carter supported the Shah. I'm not sure what you mean by nail. Do you think Carter cared at all about reasonable government in places like Iran and Afghanistan? I think it took balls, stupid balls, but balls, to nail the Iranian people the way that he did. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 05:45:38 [Permalink]
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| No matter who Carter supported at what time. I don't care who he supported when. They took those people hostage in a clear act of war, and he sat on his ass and did little. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 06:02:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Original_Intent
No matter who Carter supported at what time. I don't care who he supported when. They took those people hostage in a clear act of war, and he sat on his ass and did little.
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Yes, he could have used that opportunity to work to create, for instance, real democratic international institutions.
He could have criticized previous administrations for their anti-democratic work.
He could have worked for the betterment of life on the planet.
Instead, he supported dictators and helped them slaughter their
people.
No, he wasn't like Bush and he didn't use that opportunity bomb the hell out of innocent Iranians. For that, I'm glad. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 07:16:11 [Permalink]
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Let us not forget Iran had a freely elected democratic government before the US deposed it and installed the Shah.
Let us also not forget that reformers were elected and making headway in Iranian politics prior to GW's "Axis of Evil" speach and corresponding envigorated hostility to the country. Conservatives tend to gain support and power when a country feels threatened - as has been seen in the US post 9/11. With threatening words from the Bush Administration and the unprovoked invasion of Iraq, another member of the ficticious 'Axis of Evil,' Iran was likely feeling a great deal of threat. And their policy correspondingly turned away from open reform toward backward conservatism. Hence Ahmadinejad, certified moron, speaking at Columbia University.... |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 09/28/2007 07:19:13 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2007 : 06:04:15 [Permalink]
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| An interview with Trita Parsi on Democracy Now is interesting: |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 09/30/2007 06:06:48 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 17:34:03 [Permalink]
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| How the news works |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/03/2007 17:35:28 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 04:35:30 [Permalink]
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The humor in that link is soberly balanced by its truth.
On a related note, I was dismayed when the Democrats went along with declaring the Revolutionary Guard - effectively Iran's military - a 'terrorist organization.' I believe that gives the Bush Administration liscence to fold Revolutionary Guard targets into the ridiculously broad definition of the 'War on Terror' and attack them as needed. The morons just wrote him another blank check for war. WTF is wrong with them?  |
-Chaloobi
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 06:24:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
I was dismayed when the Democrats went along with declaring the Revolutionary Guard - effectively Iran's military - a 'terrorist organization.' |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21047176/
Back at ya!
They Iranians seems to have forgotten the US Navy
"I will never apologize for the United States of America—I don't care what the facts are"
-- George H.W. Bush
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 07:50:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Starman
Originally posted by chaloobi
I was dismayed when the Democrats went along with declaring the Revolutionary Guard - effectively Iran's military - a 'terrorist organization.' |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21047176/
Back at ya!
They Iranians seems to have forgotten the US Navy
"I will never apologize for the United States of America—I don't care what the facts are"
-- George H.W. Bush
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LOL - I thought that was pretty funny. |
-Chaloobi
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 08:31:57 [Permalink]
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| I thought it was true. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 08:50:13 [Permalink]
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Well, it's all relative, isn't it. One man's guerilla insurgent is another man's freedom fighter. It just depends on who's talking.
I saw the Iranian move as mocking the Senate and it's absurd resolution, which it deserved. Unfortunately I think the Senate resolution may be of practical value to the President and his War Hawks. |
-Chaloobi
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We'd invite Hitler to speak , says Columbia dean
