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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 09/26/2007 : 02:51:57 [Permalink]
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He's a civil engineer by training.
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Okay. Thanks. Maybe I was confusing him with Rafsanjani. Or maybe it was me that was a cleric. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 09/26/2007 02:52:34 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 03:45:40 [Permalink]
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Tempest in a teapot. Again!
What the hell is all the shouting about, anyway? Ahmadinejad is not Iran's head of state, as some would have us believe. As president, under their set-up, he might be considered something of an jumped-up Ari Fleischer, if I've spelled that correctly -- a jawbone, figurehead, and potential scapegoat for right-wing, religious knuckle-draggers.
The highest authority in the Islamic Republic is the Leader , or alternatively the Leadership Council, who exercises the combined supreme political and religious power and, indeed, is a manifestation of the integration of politics with religion (Article 5 of the constitution).
Furthermore, the constitution has provided for the election of a Leader or a Leadership Council and the qualifications of the Leader or members of the Leadership Council (Article 107).
The first leader of the Islamic republic of Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini, assumed his position as the founder of the Islamic republic and the theological protector (vali-e faqih). Duties, powers and qualifications of the leader, or the Leadership Council, as the case may be, have been specified by the constitution (Article 10911).
After demise of Ayatollah Khomeini on 3 June 1989 Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamanei was elected by the Assembly of Experts in May 1989 as the new leader of the Islamic Republic.
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Of course Ahmadinejad too, is a right-wing, religious knuckle-dragger but the difference is that he doesn't have as much real power as he is attributed.
He's worthy of notice but not of note.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 04:02:11 [Permalink]
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Everyone talks of "internal revolution" in Iran to fix their problems. What if they throw a revolution that noone wants?
Their was a group of Imamiss, or Mahadiists, or whatever the hell they called themselves. The Aylotolahs tried to weed them out, but they are still their. They agree with most of what the Aylotolahs want, except for the actual Islamic state. They do not want an Islamic state, that would just lengthen the time, through peace, before the end of days and the return of he 12th Imam. |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 07:49:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Original_Intent
Originally posted by perrodetokio
A decade ago the american people didnīt know Iran existed (except for a small elite). Today iran is the wolfman, dracula and the devil altogether. Go figure!
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LMAO.
Where are you from. Here a lot of us remmeber hostages for 444 days in the 1970's.... Held in Iran by the same party that Ahmadenijad is part of.
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First, let me make myself clear: I do not sympathise with Iranīs government in any way.
Having said that:
"Lots" itīs not most. By the end of the 80īs there other concerns in americans minds and again, perhaps you agree that the hostage crisis didnīt happen out of nothing, the CIA (oh, how surprising) might have somthing to do with it.
Again, I am not justifying Iran, yet in my opinion (I might be wrong and stand to be corrected and accepting corrections, unlike somepeople) Iran has not been the most hostile country in modern history.
cheers
perro de tokio |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 05:10:44 [Permalink]
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I think it's fine Ahmadinejad was allowed to speak at Columbia University. Why not? Since when is core US ideology all about censoring controversial opinion? I believe everyone ought to have the right to speak their views - especially those we oppose. And the effect of his speach was wonderful - he exposed himself even more as the fundie-moron that he is and the US was defended as the open society that it is.
Seems to me the only legitimate complaint against Ahmadinejad is his big fat mouth. Since when is that a reason to censor someone? He's not nearly as powerful in Iran as the Bush Administration paints him. He doesn't represent the opinions of the majority of Iranians all that well and he's out of favor with the clerical power base. So let the man speak - it is totally in keeping with who we are, if not who he is.
Regarding Iran's nuclear program, I think it's important to note the facts over and above the Bush Administration propaganda:
#1. Iran has not violated the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.
#2. There's no evidence that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon.
#3. Iran is not doing particularly well with their enrichment program anyway. They are not the burning nuclear threat the Bush Administration would like to paint them as. Don't let Bush do with Iran what he did with Iraq.
Arguably, it's not a bad idea for Iran to be developing a nuclear energy program. Why? Because Iran's oil reserves are a limited resource. And because sooner rather than later the world is going to have to back off on oil as an energy source. In the medium or shorter term, Iran may find itself rather screwed with it's major economic foundation gone or out of fashion. The time for a nation to be seeking an alternative to oil is before the resource is gone and/or defacto banned. All rhetoric aside, nuclear energy development is a prudent decision.
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-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 09/27/2007 05:13:17 |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 14:49:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by perrodetokio
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Originally posted by perrodetokio
A decade ago the american people didnīt know Iran existed (except for a small elite). Today iran is the wolfman, dracula and the devil altogether. Go figure!
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LMAO.
Where are you from. Here a lot of us remmeber hostages for 444 days in the 1970's.... Held in Iran by the same party that Ahmadenijad is part of.
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First, let me make myself clear: I do not sympathise with Iranīs government in any way.
Having said that:
"Lots" itīs not most. By the end of the 80īs there other concerns in americans minds and again, perhaps you agree that the hostage crisis didnīt happen out of nothing, the CIA (oh, how surprising) might have somthing to do with it.
Again, I am not justifying Iran, yet in my opinion (I might be wrong and stand to be corrected and accepting corrections, unlike somepeople) Iran has not been the most hostile country in modern history.
cheers
perro de tokio
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Most hostile... no. COntinually hostile.. yes. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 18:26:47 [Permalink]
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| Hostile? Who has Iran threatened? Who has Iran attacked? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 20:29:04 [Permalink]
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I felt a deep sense of pride when I heard Ahmadinejad speaking at Columbia University. In particular, this feeling came when the Iranian President, after suggesting that the Holocaust should be re-examined, was met with jeers and boos and then responded by asking why a country that supports freedom of speech would not promote it on this matter.
How silly he is, completely misunderstanding freedom of speech. The promise of free speech does not include that it will be popular, accepted, or treated with respect. Ahmadinejad was treated with exactly the amount of dignity and respect as he deserved - a harshly critical introduction before his talk, and negative reactions from the audience. But he was allowed to speak! For the sake of the public being able to hear what he would say to an American audience, and let us judge the merits of his words for ourselves, he could speak. I heard him on the radio! His words were printed and sounded all over the world, and all can see that the USA supports free speech so much that we'll let this asshole dictator come and say what he wants at one of our universities. Because this culture supports freedom and pluralism, he can be heard here without censorship, and after he says stupid crap like denying the Holocaust and saying there are no gays in Iran being put to death, regular Americans can meet him with jeers. IMHO, that's fucking awesome.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 20:30:36 [Permalink]
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Gorgo wrote: | Hostile? Who has Iran threatened? Who has Iran attacked? |
They certainly attack and terrorize their own people plenty. However, it is no secret that they are hostile toward Israel. That's why the International community fears Iran having nukes, and that's why nobody believes them when they insist that their nuclear program is for energy, not bombs. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 20:39:59 [Permalink]
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chaloobi wrote: #1. Iran has not violated the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.
#2. There's no evidence that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon.
#3. Iran is not doing particularly well with their enrichment program anyway. They are not the burning nuclear threat the Bush Administration would like to paint them as. Don't let Bush do with Iran what he did with Iraq.
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While this is all true, there are international sanctions, a UN call for them to stop refining uranium, and Russia and China have made some noise (albeit not as much as the USA) I'm rather convinced by journalists such as Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker who say that the Bush administration is gearing up to make a military attack on Iran, and certainly the USA is putting forth propaganda to further than aim. An unprovoked attack on Iran would be just as unjust and criminal as the war in Iraq. That said, I don't think it can be denied that Iran is hostile toward Israel, that at least their intention is to eventually develop nukes, and that they are a threat to the stability of the region.
Edited to add: In short, this whole situation is ugly, with no clear solution in sight, much like everything else in the Middle East. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/27/2007 20:41:02 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 03:48:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Gorgo wrote: | Hostile? Who has Iran threatened? Who has Iran attacked? |
They certainly attack and terrorize their own people plenty. However, it is no secret that they are hostile toward Israel. That's why the International community fears Iran having nukes, and that's why nobody believes them when they insist that their nuclear program is for energy, not bombs.
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They have made statements that they are against what the government of Israel has done. They've said nothing about hurting the people of Israel. No, the people of the U.S. should be worried about the crimes of their own state. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 03:56:45 [Permalink]
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Gorgo wrote: | They have made statements that they are against what the government of Israel has done. They've said nothing about hurting the people of Israel. |
Okay, I'll just ignore all the analysis of hoards of political scientists and journalists who say that the tensions between Iran and Israel have huge potential to turn violent. You also failed to mention that Iran doesn't recognize Israel as a state, which is a little more severe than only making statements against what Israel has done.
| No, the people of the U.S. should be worried about the crimes of their own state. |
Can we not worry about the crimes of more than one state at a time? I mean, as someone who has marched for peace and spoken out in conversations against the Iraq War about thousand time more than any other nation, I'm rather annoyed by this remark. People should criticize what they view as injustice and intolerance wherever they see it. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 04:00:24 [Permalink]
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| The real reason I highly dislike the Iranian leadership is because they are religious nutjobs who oppress their own people and who are playing politics in a way that is going to allow the beast of the corrupt US government to come down on them. And who will suffer most? The Iranian people, of course! I can bitch about the Iranian government without simutaneously saying that the US government is just dandy. If the Bush administration bombs Iran and kills yet even more innocent people using my and every other American's tax dollars, that will be a horrible and heinous thing. But let's not ignore the fact that Ahmadinejad supports a fundamentalist regime. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 04:22:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
The real reason I highly dislike the Iranian leadership is because they are religious nutjobs who oppress their own people and who are playing politics in a way that is going to allow the beast of the corrupt US government to come down on them. And who will suffer most? The Iranian people, of course! I can bitch about the Iranian government without simutaneously saying that the US government is just dandy. If the Bush administration bombs Iran and kills yet even more innocent people using my and every other American's tax dollars, that will be a horrible and heinous thing. But let's not ignore the fact that Ahmadinejad supports a fundamentalist regime.
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I have no problem with discussing what Iran does. I have a problem playing into the hysteria that the U.S. government and the U.S. corporate media has set out for us. Israel is no better than Iran on any scale, and Iran has attacked no one. Israel has. Why are we not more concerned about the fact that they have nukes than the fact that Iran does not? I don't care that Iran hasn't recognized Israel. I haven't either. That's one statement that I agree with Ahmadinejad about. I would like to see Israel turn into a democratic republic. bush would like to see Iran be ruled by one of his puppets.
Iran is not a wonderful place to be for some people, just like Iraq wasn't. We do not improve their lives by threatening them and making their rulers seem necessary to their people.
The U.S. could be doing so much to improve life on the planet, yet they are and have been working harder to destroy it as the years go by.
Ahmadinejad did not say that he wanted to wipe Israel off the map. Ahmadinejad has said some stupid things, but he has not denied the Holocaust to my knowledge. There is no indication that Iran has violated any international laws regarding their nuclear ambitions, and there is no indication they have even violated the NPT which the U.S. has. Why are we not threatening to invade Washington, or putting sanctions on the U.S.? All these things do is deepen the impoverishment of the poor in Iran, and make their leaders stronger. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 04:27:27 [Permalink]
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Okay, I'll just ignore all the analysis of hoards of political scientists and journalists who say that the tensions between Iran and Israel have huge potential to turn violent.
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Yes, there is every reason to think that Israel would attack Iran given the slightest imaginary provocation. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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We'd invite Hitler to speak , says Columbia dean
