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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2007 : 16:57:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Bill scott
Well, at the current time man on man sex requires you to ignore the bio mechanics... |
Actually, the men who engage in such sex seem to rather enjoy the biomechanics of it.
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So does a dog humping a tree, enjoy the biomechanics of it all.
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So, why do you have a problem with it?
Aside from your religious belief that it is against God's Law, I mean... I thought you had religious freedom in America.
Masturbation is also square peg in a round hole, since it wastes a lot of energy and in male's case a lot of viable sperm intended for the procreation of humankind. Do you think we should have a law against it? Why not? And what is the difference between the two, beside homosexual acts are performed with two participants instead of being alone?
Also, is it ok for a man and a woman to have sex by petting*?
(Warning, Wikipedia link contains images that may not be work-safe)
This link contains examples of biomechanics that was not intended by neither God nor your simplistic idea of Natural Selection. Do you engage in any of these sinful acts (including masturbation)?
I do perform some of these "sinful acts", but then I don't share your beliefs, so I don't give a f*ck.
Are you man enough to admit you don't live "clean"?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2007 : 17:00:01 [Permalink]
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Bill Scott:
That is fine. But at the current moment evolution still has sexual repeoduction through a man and women only. And man on man sex is only acomlished through the placing of a square peg in a round hole. It will work if it is forced but, obviously, is not the intent. And most times the results are disasterious. |
| I doubt evolution works by going against the obvious intent of itself. Man on women sex is the obvious intent of sexual reproduction. Man on man sex, obviously, is not. A house divided will never stand. |
So, let me get this straight. You are making an argument based on your acceptance of evolution? Good!
Of coarse, it seems that you misunderstand how evolution works for a population to survive. But that's okay. A little catching up is all you need. At least you have taken the first step in accepting the most important biological reality of the natural world.
I congratulate you!!!
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2007 : 17:13:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Of which homosexuality is not one of them. Not to mention it's negative impact on procreation and the longevity of the species. |
What "negative impact on procreation and the longevity of the species?" Where do you come up with this stuff? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2007 : 18:47:17 [Permalink]
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Evolution has no "intent." It has neither goal nor ambition. It is a natural process that works acccording to the environment an organism occupies at a given time. If that environment changes, so will the organism, and not always for the better as witness what a cobble-up our bodies are. Homosexuality is no more than a genetic quirk that really has nothing to do with species survival. It has always been represented by such a small percentage of the human population that it has never really mattered, doesn't now, and never will.
But on the other hand, it gives some of our sleazier politicians and less than sane religious organzations someone they can attack with impunity, so I guess it ain't all bad.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 02:42:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| Evolution has no "intent." It has neither goal nor ambition. |
By intent, I interpret it as having a function. Function of sex from an evolutionary standpoint is to produce offspring. Function of the eye is to detect photons, and thus, objects. I understand what you are saying and I agree with it wholeheartedly, but this seems to be how Bill is determined to use the word. So *shrug*, I'm not going to argue of semantics.
What I've been trying to show Bill is that function, intent, is not constant when it comes to evolution. I have a feeling that I'm not getting through though.
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Tell him that evolution does not exist..... Did someone just drop something?
Way too many of us fall into the trap of thinking of evolution as some sort of slow & quiet, but omnipitent force shaping species as the Earth stumbles along -- religious people are particulary susceptable to this -- but it ain't so. There is no such force; never has been, never will be.
"Individuals mutate; species evolve." Without the former, the latter cannot happen. Therefore, evolution is only to be found in the passing of genes from individual parents to their offspring. Some of those genes are advantageous to their prodgeny and some are not. Most have little effect either way. Species have gone extinct due to this and others have have become downright bizarre yet still fitting into their various niches in the environment.
And when you've got him softened up with that, hit him with the fact that the great majority of species on earth reproduce asexually. Amoebas reproduce by binary fission, for example, and many species swap genetic material by simple contact.
And then tell him about parthenogenesis and the lizards that never get laid. Except homosexually.
But where does human homosexuality fit into all this? It doesn't except in adoptive children, and here's the remarkable part: We are among the very few species that willingly, even eagerly, adopt the offspring of others, thus continuing a genetic line not our own. The same might be said for our pets, although the very minute my cat was old enough, I had her kitty factory shut down once & for all. No gene-passing for her!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 07:26:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by chaloobi |
| I have no idea if anyone had military units comprised of gays. I seem to recall it was common for Greek warriors to have sexual relationships with young boys - shield bearers / apprentices or something. There were prohibitions on how they had sex - the warriors did not receive sexually, they only gave as it was considered feminine and/or demeaning to be penetrated. But the warriors were not strictly homosexual - more like bisexual. I believe they had wives and children and such. This is all hazy memory though and I don't have any sources to post. |
That is all fine and dandy, however, it still does not change the cold hard facts of biological mechanics and sexual reproduction. Both of which homosexuality is diametrically opposed. In short, this was never intended to ever fit into that, and this is rather self-evident when one can put their emotional involvement aside while looking at the human anatomy. |
I'm not sure what your point is. You seem to be rebutting an argument I didn't make. I wasn't making any argument at all in fact, just commenting on what I recalled of historic Greek culture regarding homosexuality and military units.
| MARF could not have said it any better. In order to except this notion that human homosexuality is just an equal and normal alternative to human heterosexuality one must first overlook the biological mechanics and sexual reproduction of humans. |
How are you defining "normal" and "natural?" And since when is human sexuality strictly for reproducation? I've only had sex half a dozen times with the intent to reproduce. Having been sexually active for over 20 years the vast majority of my sexual activity was intentionally not intended to make babies. Am I un-natural? Abnormal? And if so, how is this relevant to what I choose to do with my personal life anyway???
| Culture sets pretty strict parameters beyond which it makes people uncomfortable or miserable to go. I think it often never occurs to people to go beyond said boundries, they are so subtle yet firm. |
Replace culture with biological mechanics and you will be on to something here, as far as human homosexuality |
If you're equating human culture with "biological mechanics" as it relates to sexuality, then you're accepting that sexual behavior is malleable and relative, subject to change over time as societies evolve. I happen to believe that is true to some extent. Is this what you're arguing?
| Frankly it doesn't matter to me how much choice is involved anyway - people ought to be able to make decisions about their own sexuality freely and privately, so long as no one else is unreasonably harmed. |
That is all fine and dandy, however, it still does not change the cold hard facts of biological mechanics and sexual reproduction. Both of which homosexuality is diametrically opposed. In short, this was never intended to ever fit into that, and this is rather self-evident when one can put their emotional involvement aside while looking at the human anatomy. |
Intended by who??? Who says the cold hard facts of reproductive biology must determine human behavior in spite of what humans decide they want to do?
Human anatomy is irrelevant. Whether or not homosexuality is genetically determined is irrelevant too. If two men choose to have sex, then that's the end of the discussion. They chose; their private lives are their business. End of story.
Are you proposing to legislate people's free will based on the idea a penis fits into a vagina better than an anus? Do you propose to legislate sexual positions as well? Any position between man and woman that isn't the ideal fit should be illegal? Which one is the ideal fit? Missionary or Doggy?
| MARF could not have said it any better. In order to except this notion that human homosexuality is just an equal and normal alternative to human heterosexuality one must first overlook the biological mechanics and sexual reproduction of humans. |
Ok. It should be overlooked then. It clearly has almost no relevance to human behavior and certainly is no basis for subverting free will. |
-Chaloobi
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 15:20:29 [Permalink]
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This hypocrite now has taken back his pledge to resign from the Senate by the end of last month, even though he lost his bid to have his guilty plea thrown out. Hennepin County District Judge Charles Porter found that Craig had entered the guilty plea to to a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge "accurately, voluntarily and intelligently," and that it was too late to withdraw his admission.
In a sharply worded 27-page order, the judge found that Craig had freely given his plea after extensive discussions with prosecutors and after waiving his right to an attorney.
"The defendant, a career politician with a college education, is of at least above-average intelligence," Porter wrote. "He knew what he was saying, reading and signing." |
The other GOP Senators are making sounds about feeling "frustration and fatigue around the issue." They need every Republican they can keep these days, so they will probably take no real action. So long as their dear colleague votes like a bigot, they don't mind working with a homosexual. Mostly being pledge-breaking, hypocritical bigots in their own various ways, these politicians no doubt feel a great deal of empathy for the man. | Craig, however, did get a show of support from fellow Idaho Republican Sen. Mike Crapo, who said in a statement that "Sen. Craig has the right to pursue his legal options as does any citizen, and I support his effort." |
GOP Sen. Arlen Spector also is warmly supportive, though his legal advice is suspect at best: Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, who had advocated that Craig fight to withdraw his guilty plea, said he wasn't surprised by the judge's decision.
"It's a question of law," Specter said. "I thought he had a chance. No doubt it's difficult to withdraw a guilty plea." |
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 15:42:30 [Permalink]
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Yeh, it's shaping up to give us many days/weeks/months of entertainment that I, for one, could live along quite well without. If he goes, he'll not be missed; if he stays, he'll be stripped of most if not all of his authority, by fellow Republicans no less, and it will be as if he'd gone anyway, and he'll not be missed.
And gone he will surely be this coming election. Will he be missed? I rather doubt it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Craig returns, 1st votes against hate crime act
