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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 20:06:03 [Permalink]
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Boomer.....
I am sorry that you were banned on my thread early in your efforts here on SFN. Kil, Dave and I have had much discussion concerning the level of civility on this forum. I find what you did totally out of line with keeping the discussions here more or less focused on topic and not stooping to personal attack. It is juvenile, degrading, and does not in any way advance what these people (the owner and crew) are trying to do.
Although, I can understand your annoyance at Marfknox, you will notice after getting a sarcastic reaming from me, she pulled back sharply in her rhetoric (and has not recently used any four letter words in anger)
I would suggest, that if you want to vent your frustration or anger at an obnoxious poster, you do it in a clever (Marf's word), biting, satirical, or sarcastic style and use the street words for emphasis instead of attack. Bush, Cheney, et al are obviously exceptions, but I haven't seen them posting here.
Marf is all right, she just doesn't curb her enthusiasm easily. She really should learn to spell, too!
Maybe I'll see you in another Forum, but be careful, some of them are are prissier than these folks!
Good Luck and try not to get banished to a Creationist website!
Bill Buck
bngbuck@roadrunner.com |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 20:18:39 [Permalink]
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| I'd like to state for the record that I rather despise having the topic of the discussion changed to a rant against my personal character. I was enjoying the conversation about money and whether it could buy an artistic legacy. But apparently I displayed too much knowledge in that area. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 20:19:11 [Permalink]
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Hey Bill,
Was that last post really necessary?
Could you please explain to me what it was meant to accomplish?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 20:40:11 [Permalink]
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Kil,Dave,Boomer,Jerome....
I just got around to Hillary and Blackwater
This tent show is more fun than the Cirque de Soleil!
I about fell off my chair when Boomer fessed up as Jerome's wife.
(wiping tears off my face)
Hell, I didn't have to send you my e-mail address.
Here I am giving advice to Jerome/Boomer on Forum netiquette!
I swear, I'm never going to another movie with this kind of entertainment available for the price of my e-mail!
Bill Buck |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 10/18/2007 21:29:40 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 20:48:52 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
No, not necessary at all. But what the hell is the problem?
I wanted to contact Boomer, or have Boomer contact me as I thought she must have some reason for defending me! Maybe I could hit on her, it didn't work with Marfknox. Thank God! I mean my wife's away all day and since that damn TV show I can't chase the teenagers, so a dirty old man's gotta do something all day long!
I just found out two minutes before posting my note to you, Dave, Boomer, and Jerome who Boomer was. I am still laughing!
Now, what is bothering you, Kil?
Bill |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 21:57:23 [Permalink]
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Marfknox.....
| I'd like to state for the record that I rather despise having the topic of the discussion changed to a rant against my personal character. I was enjoying the conversation about money and whether it could buy an artistic legacy. But apparently I displayed too much knowledge in that area. |
It's my view that you HAVE too much knowledge in that area.
Which post of mine are you referring to as a "rant", marf?
The topic of the discussion has not been changed. I have no answers for your questions involving Picasso's personality or Randy Warhole's peculiar photographic presentations, and I feel that a great deal of what was being said was not germane to the "money can buy"... premise. In any event, I have about stated my complete perspective on "can money buy talent" and I would kind of like to look at some other aspects of the question.
Anyway, you may notice that I posted a reply to some of your commentary at 19:33:38, forty-five minutes before your complaint! I am working on a response to another unanswered post of yours - it is concerning politics and the buying of power and the very law of this country! If I can't finish tonight, I will tomorrow morning. We old curmudgeons need our sleep!
So jump in, lady, and have at it!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 22:40:25 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
Are you still there?
Bill Buck |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 10/18/2007 : 07:47:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Kil.....
No, not necessary at all. But what the hell is the problem?
I wanted to contact Boomer, or have Boomer contact me as I thought she must have some reason for defending me! Maybe I could hit on her, it didn't work with Marfknox. Thank God! I mean my wife's away all day and since that damn TV show I can't chase the teenagers, so a dirty old man's gotta do something all day long!
I just found out two minutes before posting my note to you, Dave, Boomer, and Jerome who Boomer was. I am still laughing!
Now, what is bothering you, Kil?
Bill
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Here is the thing. I wish you had left off at the first paragraph of your post to a banned member. There is nothing in that first paragraph that bothers me.
I may be wrong, but it seemed as though the rest of you post, until the end, were directions on how to post with personal insults and remain within the rules.
Bill:
Although, I can understand your annoyance at Marfknox… |
Bill:
I would suggest, that if you want to vent your frustration or anger at an obnoxious poster, you do it in a clever (Marf's word), biting, satirical, or sarcastic style and use the street words for emphasis instead of attack. |
I may have misunderstood your intent but the above quotes seem to suggest that the staff is hypocritical in our application of the rules of conduct on our forums. You seem to be suggesting that in order to get away with personal insults, boomer just needs to be as clever as you and Marf, when faced with an obnoxious poster, using Marf as the example of what that kind of poster might look like. The lesson being that if you want to be insulting, mask it in sarcasm or some other clever method of response.
In other words, it seemed to me that you were using boomer's completely inappropriate response as an opportunity to be critical of SFN in general.
I don't mind criticism, but I would prefer that it be direct and to the point.
On the other hand, I may be too sensitive on this subject of late and if a correction of my understanding of what you posted is in order, go ahead and correct me.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 14:42:12 [Permalink]
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Dave G.......
OK.
Here is the thing. I wish you had left off at the first paragraph of your post to a banned member. There is nothing in that first paragraph that bothers me.
I may be wrong, but it seemed as though the rest of you post, until the end, were directions on how to post with personal insults and remain within the rules. |
Kil, you are not wrong, what you perceived is exactly what I intended.
| You seem to be suggesting that in order to get away with personal insults, boomer just needs to be as clever as you and Marf, when faced with an obnoxious poster, using Marf as the example of what that kind of poster might look like. The lesson being that if you want to be insulting, mask it in sarcasm or some other clever method of response. |
Precisely.
| I may have misunderstood your intent but the above quotes seem to suggest that the staff is hypocritical in our application of the rules of conduct on our forums. |
Here is where I diverge. I do not understand your use of the word hypocritical in the context of your enforcement of Forum rules. (Please read on before responding, as this takes explanation)
I assume, and correct me if I am wrong, that you are saying that all insult of any sort is prohibited on the forum. If that is so. then I must apologize for a great deal of misconduct here in recent weeks. My post to Marfknox was one long piece of sarcastic insult, which I thought the immature little lady badly needed in return for the long list of invective of one sort or another that she had directed to me.
I could have turned the other cheek. But I thought that you guys were fair and balanced and if Marf was seen as right and I was wrong (in insulting, not in content),then it would really be F & B as in Fox News. I did not see any moderation of her seemingly endless use of perjorative, so I sent in the A team. No moderation occured there, either. OK, to me that's the way it should be, carry on!
Now comes Boomer (you have to admit J and his wife have an aptitude for pseudonyms, what with the 36 point Bold type and all.) with her totally appropriate self description and totally disgusting insult right out of the Cheney school of civil discourse. Well, THAT was really out of line, exactly what I had been talking to you guys about for months, and you couldn't have been more right than banning her on the spot!
I thought I read something of yours or Dave's way back; that insult, if it was cleverly humorous or dryly pedantic or the like, was OK as some spice to the broth here. I have not gone back to check the Rules, but I will this morning.
Now, FUCK YOU, plastered all over the page is certainly not clever, humorous, pedantic, or even adult usage of the language. But, "you know, lady, I think you would benefit from an aggressive sexual experience right now; if you are capable of it, why don't you go find one?" might get a chuckle from some in the audience and fulfill the same intent. The question is, should it be grounds for warning or banning (if repeated in some similar way), or not?
All I can say is, if it is in response to an equally adroit insult of some sort, absolutely not - literally what is sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose (out of respect for certain sensitivities, I am using a massaged metaphorical adage here).
But if it is insult where none has been given, it may be time for moderation and the moderators must abide by their own rules when they jump in with comment or commentary.
I see no hypocrisy of any sort in your application of the rules, Kil. If you want NO insult of any sort, it is going to require intense mo |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 17:22:57 [Permalink]
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bngbuck wrote: | But I thought that you guys were fair and balanced and if Marf was seen as right and I was wrong (in insulting, not in content) |
This is my problem – you are insulting me without content. I insulted you with content. Hell, I insulted you with content in direct response to your previous content. You call me an "immature little lady", but you are the one who had made a personal issue of this on a public forum. I, like any normal person, kept it subtext.
I've devoted most of my life to art and am an admirer of real philosophical cynicism, and you posted a lot of really ignorant and harsh (not to mention cliché) criticisms of some of the most important art of the past century, and then label yourself a cynic for it (edited to add: when the proper label is philistine, curmudgeon, or perhaps antiquarian or classicist). You also dissed rap and hip hop with equal transparent ignorance. What, do you think nobody is going to call you on that?
Every insult I hurled at you was in direct response to that. That is how I've stayed within the bounds of what is appropriate. It isn't cleverness, it is staying on target and thereby avoiding ad hom attack and personal insults. I don't mean to personally insult you. I don't even know you! I mean to insult what you have said on this forum.
I should probably also mention that bringing attention to my age or gender is rude and a sore spot with me since several times I've had debates at parties or conferences and such and had some asshole guy older than me resort to saying something like, "You know, you're a real cute girl…" as a way of subtle ad hom attack. You have several times now called attention to my gender and age, and I find it at best an annoying habit, and at worst an intentional and logically fallacious way of undermining my arguments.
Maybe you haven't intentionally annoyed me. Maybe you are just an imbecile when it comes to Internet etiquette. Or maybe it really is oversensitive, hothead little lady me. Then again, I'm not the only person you are annoying, and I think you know that.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 10/18/2007 17:26:23 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 18:37:57 [Permalink]
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Marfknox.....
Thanks for staying on topic.
Please answer your mail call.
Bill Buck
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 19:36:15 [Permalink]
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You go away on business for a few days, and look what happens...Originally posted by bngbuck
If you want NO insult of any sort, it is going to require intense moderation, but I think it can be done. |
I don't. I'm sure that Kil's goal is not "no insult of any sort," also.
What we wish to do here is to minimize the personal hostilities between SFN members. I'm old enough to know that regardless of what a person writes, someone will be insulted by it. We can't possibly control what people might find to be insulting, but we can attempt to control escalations once someone is insulted. Some folks, whether I think they're right or wrong on whatever the main point of discussion is, can't seem to restrain themselves from upping the ante once the personal insults start flying. Sometimes I'm one of them. Once you've won a battle, it's tough to avoid trying to win the war.
Anyway, I can certainly say that I'm not real happy with either marf's performance in this thread or yours, bngbuck. I think marf squandered a "teachable moment" by being overly sensitive about something for which she has an obvious and genuine passion, and I think you, bngbuck, find her reactions amusing and so keep poking her in different ways.
This isn't what I had hoped to come home to. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 20:28:53 [Permalink]
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Dave W....
What does Kil think?
Bill |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 21:26:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
What does Kil think? |
And now, bizarrely, it appears that you think that poking at me is a good idea. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 21:43:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Dave W....
What does Kil think?
Bill
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Sigh…
Insults happen. If I am wrong in my impression that you were insinuating that we do not moderate with a somewhat even hand, I am willing to stand corrected…
Sorry, but we will probably never write much more than we have now as the official policy that everyone agrees to when registering here.
Registration Rules and Policies Agreement
| In your use of these forums, you agree that you will not post any information which is vulgar, harassing, hateful, threatening, invading of others privacy, sexually oriented, or violates any laws. |
We will continue to make the call…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Money can buy (almost) Anything!
