|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2007 : 06:26:42 [Permalink]
|
Just trying to make the point for Gorgo that it is our laws that enable civil courts to award money for damages and then authorize the winner to collect. You could, I guess, call it a "government action", but saying it that way seems to imply some illicit or independent motivation on the part of the court.
filthy said:
Funny thing; a large percentage of the Phelps family are lawyers, including Fulminating Fred himself (no wonder lawyers have such a shitty rep). One might think that they planned it this way; a metaphorical bomb shelter of sorts.
|
Yeah, they make no bones about it. They knew they would incite outrage, so they sent a bunch of their klan to lawschool. So they could sue other people and the government when they felt they had to. Not sure they envisioned a need for lawyers to defend themselves from civil action, just to bring civil action against anyone who ever beat their asses to a pulp.
Had another thought: What might be the price of winning against Westboro? Do forgive my perfectly natural paranoia, but these are vicious people. They are also a very insular cult, and that's not a reassuring combination. I wonder if some of the Snyder family might suffer an 'accident' or two, sometime down the road.
|
I don't think they will resort to that. They would, afterall, be the prime suspect for any misfortune that befalls the Snyder family.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
 |
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 06:45:15 [Permalink]
|
You could, I guess, call it a "government action", but saying it that way seems to imply some illicit or independent motivation on the part of the court.
|
Right, it is not a priori censorship and they are not bringing the suit, and the court doesn't hand you a check for what they've "awarded" you when you leave the courtroom. However we can agree that it is government which decides what kind of speech can be limited, they help to collect money in the sense that they have said that someone owes you money, and in the sense that (I think) it is necessary to have the government's involvement to garnish wages, put liens on property, etc. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 07:11:52 [Permalink]
|
Gorgo said:
| However we can agree that it is government which decides what kind of speech can be limited, |
Sure, but that isn't some arbitrary process. The various governments (local to federal) can't just wake up one day and decide what speech they are going to restrict.
And this case is different on a couple of levels. It is about a private citizen claiming to have suffered damage by a group of people saying hatefull bigoted things. On the invasion of privacy it may have a chance of withstanding appeals.
As much as I hate the PhelpsKlan I still wouldn't like to see their right to speak infringed. I know I'm baised against them, and even glad to see them put to legal trouble.
But do they really have the right to chase private citizens down and force what they have to say on them? (If you are correct that this didn't actually happen it definitely weakens the case) We already know there are limits on free speech, but what the phelpsklan is doing is (to my knowledge) new and unique, so the laws have to be tested to see if what they are doing is protected speech or not, which is precicely what the courts are supposed to be doing.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out when appealed.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 08:02:33 [Permalink]
|
Right, I was just commenting on the comment that this was not a government action. A court is a part of the government, civil or otherwise. That would be like saying that the House of Representatives is not part of the government because Representatives are not hired by the government, they're hired by the people.
It wil be interesting. I'm hoping the lawyers at dogmafreeamerica.com talk about it on their show.
Reversals likely..... |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/05/2007 08:06:13 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 08:27:51 [Permalink]
|
I don't think they will resort to that. They would, afterall, be the prime suspect for any misfortune that befalls the Snyder family.
|
You're probably right, but this bunch is all but batshit insane so there's really no telling.
It will indeed, be interesting to see how it finally comes out. And if the award, or some portion of it, stands, then I wonder if Westboro will pay.
From what I've read, I don't think they have the money.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 10:28:18 [Permalink]
|
I wonder what the reaction of these "phelptists" would be if I stood outside the funeral of one of them and chanted "God hates religious nuts that´s why you died!" or "Your God does not exist, you´re delusional and an imbecile!".
Would that be considered protected free speech?
Can I sue them if they attack me?
just wondering...
(edited to fix spelling) |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
| Edited by - perrodetokio on 11/05/2007 10:29:05 |
|
|
|
pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 11:57:19 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by perrodetokio
I wonder what the reaction of these "phelptists" would be if I stood outside the funeral of one of them and chanted "God hates religious nuts that´s why you died!" or "Your God does not exist, you´re delusional and an imbecile!".
Would that be considered protected free speech?
Can I sue them if they attack me?
just wondering...
(edited to fix spelling)
|
I doubt they would care. They are quite comfortable with their beliefs and the ramblings of some infidel matter little.
No, it's best to attack their one True God - money. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
|
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 12:13:37 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by pleco
I doubt they would care. They are quite comfortable with their beliefs and the ramblings of some infidel matter little.
No, it's best to attack their one True God - money.
|
I tell you all again: That's the American Way. Get da money.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 12:35:53 [Permalink]
|
| Im gonna use a sign that just says "God Hates" |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 08:48:10 [Permalink]
|
Here's a blog that has some legal viewpoints .
I finally listened to Rich Orman . (mp3 file from dogmafreeamerica.com, you might have to right click to download) He was basically in favor of shutting up Phelps, but read some of the comments by lawyers above. Flynn, his lawyer friend, wasn't on the show. I think Rich Orman is an assistant D.A. somewhere, so not sure if he wants to claim to be an expert on this. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2007 : 06:54:57 [Permalink]
|
Here's the latest update: Anti-gay church asks federal judge to stay judgment against it
$10.9 million awarded to Marine's family
By Matthew Dolan | Sun reporter
November 14, 2007
The Kansas-based anti-gay church that was smacked with a $10.9 million jury award against its members has asked a federal judge in Baltimore to review the judgment.
|
It looks to me like they're starting to get just a little shrill. I wonder what their 'protest' schedual is like these days.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2008 : 18:37:15 [Permalink]
|
| Here's something that speaks to whether or not this is a government action |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 13:57:01 [Permalink]
|
No surprise, really. And as Ed said, it was the right decision. After all, if they could do it to Phelps, they could do it to anyone.
The downside here is that we can expect a lot more activity from these dark clowns, as they are now flushed with success and might well try bigger and better things.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/06/2009 : 15:07:45 [Permalink]
|
On a related matter:
'God hates Diet Pepsi'
A group that advocates "traditional family values" claims it has the signatures of 500,000 people who have pledged to boycott Pepsi over what it says are the company's activities promoting gay rights.
The American Family Association, which boasts "2.5 million online supporters," "asked PepsiCo to be neutral in the culture war and not support the homosexual agenda," it said in a press release Tuesday. "PepsiCo refused. The company continues to give financial support to homosexual organizations."
The AFA launched its boycott campaign in January over PepsiCo's "continued support of same-sex marriage and homosexual advocacy." The group said it had received a "condescending letter" from Pepsi that "refused to address Pepsi's support of the homosexual agenda."
In particular, the AFA decried PepsiCo's donations to groups that funded the effort against California's Proposition 8 last year. The AFA said PepsiCo gave $500,000 to the Human Rights Campaign, which had worked to defeat Proposition 8.
|
I wonder what they're do afraid of.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
 |
|
At last.....
