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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:36:03 [Permalink]
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Robb said:I should clarify what I am saying. I am not saying take a new sonogram but show a picture of a sonogram of a typical fetus at how many weeks the mother is along.
That said, It is the same thing as when a county mandates a gang member tour the morgue as part of their sentence to show them exactly what they are involved with. |
Well, first off, people seeking an abortion have not commited a crime.
Second, I'll ask again, why do you want to force people to look at a dot on a sonogram picture? What you really want, I suspect, is to force them to look at a late term sonogram for the emotional impact. All of that data is, however, already freely available to anyone who wants to look at it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 15:29:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
I agree somewhat but what about education about the emotional aspects of sex along with the contraception and how to use them?
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What are the emotional aspects of sex that you propose to be taught? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 21:14:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Robb
As long as it is the truth. |
Some of the latest research seems to indicate that the pain part is, and then some, even if a heartbeat and brainwaves can usually be detected by seven weeks (not eight, as I'd said).
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Actually, brainwaves come rather late in the pregnancy. Consistently, not until some time the third trimester.
Neural activity about the same time as heartbeat. Indeed, there would be no heartbeat without it, but neural activity is a far cry from regular bainwaves.
Edit:
Link to an analyze of brain-wave research relevant to this discussion.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 12/03/2007 21:52:53 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 21:23:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Yes I do support sex education. But I would like to be present during the teaching, something the elementary school my daughter goes to does not allow.
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What a shame, I believe many conservative Christians would learn a lot from it. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 06:14:01 [Permalink]
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| So you want thirty parents in the back of the room ready to yell OBJECTION at the first hint of a word they don't like? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 12/04/2007 : 09:36:42 [Permalink]
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You know what? Your suggestion is bullshit Rob. Since you don't agree that any abortion is okay and made statements to that affect, why would you even propose such a stupid requirement to get an abortion?
What you really want is a total ban on abortions if what you said in the Ron Paul thread is true. You even put it at the top of your list as a the number one reason for who will get your vote!
Robb:
I will only support a candidate that is interested in stopping all abortions, making them illegal is only 10% of the solution. I am sure that abortion has been discussed to great length on this board and this is probably not the thread to do it. (but I will a little)It all hinges on whether one believes a fetus is a person or not. I do, so you can see why it affects me. |
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So why even bring this up? Are you willing to change your position on abortions if ultrasound exam's were required before getting one? If a person takes that information and goes in a direction that you don't approve of, are you willing to let it go?
You know what your goal is. So why the bullshit? I submit that you don't actually support what you are suggesting and you are engaging in a less than honest ploy to get what you really want, which is not about information so much as it is about taking another step toward turning this country into a theocracy.
And you have the nerve to complain about atheist indoctrination in another thread when what you would do is make your religious beliefs the law of the land. Give me a break!
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 12:09:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Does anybody support that mothers and fathers should be required to see an ultrasound of the fetus before they can perform an abortion?
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I don't support such a requirement. It's their business, not mine and not the government's. |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 12:18:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
So you are not for a mother and father having all the knowledge they can before the have an abortion? Isn't that what you speak against God for in the Garden of Eden? That God thinks knowledge is evil?
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Do you think they should have all the knowledge they can before an abortion? Should they be required to take an anatomy and physiology class? You know, so they know everything there is to know about a gestational human before they make this decision.
Perhaps they should also be required to take an economics class, a personal finance class, a sociology class, a pre-natal and post-natal mental development class, see a social worker and a psychologist to help make sure they have every scrap of information about themselves, their relationship, the culture of the United States, and child development they might possibly need to make this decision. They should also be screened for anxiety, stress and depression and administered proper treatment before any decision is made as well. Don't you think? |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 12:23:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
If I could control women I would make them think of the consequences before they have sex. If you have sex using contraception or not you need to understand that a child could be created and have the means to take care of the child. If you don't want to or cannot take cae of a child then you need to choose to not have sex.
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How about mandatory chastity belts from puberty onward with a requirement to demonstrate economic independance prior to removal? |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 12/04/2007 12:28:44 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 12:41:22 [Permalink]
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| How about castrations for everyone, and then just use in vitro with stored eggs when we need to increase the population? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 12/04/2007 12:47:45 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 13:46:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
How about castrations for everyone, and then just use in vitro with stored eggs when we need to increase the population?
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But what if I can pay for a child? Haven't I earned a little nooky? |
-Chaloobi
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 13:57:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
Originally posted by pleco
How about castrations for everyone, and then just use in vitro with stored eggs when we need to increase the population?
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But what if I can pay for a child? Haven't I earned a little nooky?
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Even though sex is bad in religion's eyes, we all know that with enough money in a oligarchy you can buy anything. Especially in a religious oligarchy like the US. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 20:14:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
So you want thirty parents in the back of the room ready to yell OBJECTION at the first hint of a word they don't like?
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No. I just want to be able to talk to my children after the class in my own home about anything they have questions about or anything we feel needs to be clarified in terms of what our family believes. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 20:25:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
So you want thirty parents in the back of the room ready to yell OBJECTION at the first hint of a word they don't like?
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No. I just want to be able to talk to my children after the class in my own home about anything they have questions about or anything we feel needs to be clarified in terms of what our family believes.
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And you don't have that capability now..... why?
Any school is usually quite willing to share their methodologies and teaching materials with parents. Is there some reason you would not be able to take this upon yourself to be informed of what your children are being taught? Is there some reason that you cannot broach these subjects with your children? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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