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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 12/13/2007 : 06:28:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by chaloobi
But the idea Everything is encapsulated in the Bible, so obviously the myths of an ignorant and backward tribe of wandering herdsmen, is absurd.
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The Bible does not have all there is to know. |
Amen. | Probably it only has less that 0.000000001% of all hat can be known. |
You over estimate its importance I dare say. | But it has everything that we need to know about God for our salvation. |
I completely agree. |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 06:33:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
I am not against universal health care, I am only worried how it will be accomplished. I only said that the Bible is clear that Jesus did not change things by government programs but by each person helping out one another. You inferred that I am against health care becasue the Bible says I should be.
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Actually the bible clearly advises the faithful to not worry about anything materially at all as A. the Lord shall provide and B. our lives here arn't what's important anyway.
That said, isn't it more important that universal health care BE accomplished than how it is accomplished? What could possibly be worse with how it is accomplished than having 45 million people left out of the system entirely???? |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 12/13/2007 07:12:50 |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 01:17:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
I give money to our church, our church gives money to people that need health care and cannot afford it, mostly single women with children. I hope that a system of universal health care can work for everyone but I think this is how Jesus wanted us to take care of people, by getting involved and giving Gods resources He gave you to help people in need. |
Quoting your own source, Jesus apparently wanted you to do more than "get involved". He wanted you to give everything you have to those in need (though I know some Christians argue that he only meant for his disciples to do that, and that he couldn't have really meant you should give away everything because that's so very difficult).
Mark 10:21 Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
Luke 14:33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Matthew 5:42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Matthew 6:25-26 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
Matthew 25:41-46 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' ... 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
Look at Matthew 25:41-46 again. Now, imagine what your Jesus would want people who live in a democracy do for those in need. "I was without health insurance and you did not get health insurance passed for me." (Giving money to a few people in need is better than nothing, but individuals or a church cannot truly provide health coverage for people in need - they can't spread the risk of incurring catastrophic health care costs over a large enough group to make it work. What happens when one of those single women with children needs surgery? Or her child needs an organ transplant? And, what about the other 44.99999 million other people who lack health care coverage?)
Note also that what Jesus is quoted as saying is necessary to be with him, to have eternal life, differs from what the epistles say. Why don't Jesus's words carry more weight than John's or Paul's with most Christians? You know Jesus is in heaven & is your main man, but you'd only be guessing whether John and Paul actually made it there, right? |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 09:46:47 [Permalink]
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Nice work, Zebra! Extremely well constucted irony and dead-on the ass of bible freaks! I like your style!
Bill Buck |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 01:13:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Shirlay
I would like to hear some opinions.
I have this strong belief that the Bible is nothing but made up and exaggerated stories on how the world got to the point its at today and how it will be.
We have no rock solid evidence that the Bible was actually written by God, or Jesus. Whatever.
So why do people devote their lives to a but that could very well be fictional?
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The Bible wasn't written by God it was written by 39 different people from 1800 bc to 90 ad from various strata's of life king's , doctor's, rabi's ect... The claim it makes is that through all these various author's there is an inspired message of God's plan of redemption. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 12/30/2007 : 02:30:24 [Permalink]
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darwin alogos, long time no see...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 03:48:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
I am not totally against universal health care but the Bible teaches that Christians should help others and not let a government do it for them. We as Christians should help others get proper health care and not leave it up to someone else. Did Jesus ever trust a government to do the good works that God has prepared for Christians to do?
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Back in Jesus' days, governments wasn't in the business of health care. Not the way it is done today.
If your neighbour got appendicitis, would you pay his operation?
I would...
...but I don't pay his entire bill, I only pay a part of it, by paying taxes for a system with Universal health Care. No one should be expected to pay the entire bill for someone else's visit to the hospital, even if that would the the Christian way to do it. You couldn't afford to help everyone who needed help that you met anyway. By doing it together, we can make a difference though. I'm not good at intimately caring for the physical needs of people, like changing diapers on grownups and such. Nor do I have anatomical knowledge to remove a ruptured appendix, even though I have a steady hand with a sharp knife. I do however have the good sense to delegate such tasks to those who are proficient and who do enjoy such work, so I pay them some money to do it for me. That way I can help, I know the help is carried out in the most efficient way (by professionals), and with the benefit of not getting my hands messy.
Instead of paying a lot of money that instance when my neighbour do have his ruptured appendix, I pay a smaller sum once a month. I think that is nice, because it means that I will have enough to pay the rent and utility bill even the month when my neighbour's hospital bill has to be paid.
Back in the days of the Bible, the church took care of, and helped those who didn't have anyone to care for them. And God asked everyone to pay a tenth to the Church. In that respect, the Church provided tax-funded health care. It wasn't Universal though. I believe we can do better today.
Yes, in Sweden, we do it better than both Moses or Jesus ever did, by being all inclusive.
You can too. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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The Bible
