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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 12/18/2007 : 13:32:59 [Permalink]
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| EOM |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 12/20/2007 11:19:42 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 17:09:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Dave W.| So then we have competing hysteria's and may the best hysteria win. |
The hysteria is actually a lot easier. |
As you have shown. |
Hypocrite!
You are the one frantically dodging any discussions about science, while Dave have time and time again tried to debate you on science.
All I've seen from you thus far is: 
| Bill (how many times have you reminded us that China is the #1 greenhouse gas emitter, anyway?). |
That is irrelevant as they signed the planet saving Kyotto treaty (even though they are exempt from any of it's teeth). |
Can you back up your assertion that China is exempt from any of "Kyoto's teeth"?
Besides, USA had in 2004 a carbon emission index of 20.4 per capita compared to China's 3.84. That means that USA is responsible for more than five times as much CO2 per citizen than China.
So don't give me this bullshit that China is oh-so-much-worse than USA. It's playground level arguing. USA is the country with both the technology and the economy to do something about it. China is at a big disadvantage as long as USA is trying to bully China into restricting it's economical growth by demanding that China do more for the environment than USA does.
| Why did you even mention "unknowns," Bill? |
For some unknown reason. |
I call bullshit on that. Every time you've brought up unknowns, you have done so in an attempt to discredit the IPCC report (and UN, and Al Gore) as overstating the threat. Never the other way, which you should have done, had you had any sense of fairness. Obviously fairness was never a subject in your religious schooling.
| Hey, an answer! It's a real shame, Bill, that God hasn't told you why He wants you to suffer. |
So you have personal information that God wants me to suffer? This sounds like more sensationalism again |
 What does sensationalism have anything to do with it?
Honestly, is that the best you've got?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 04:39:18 [Permalink]
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Here's an example of pollution directly associated with MMGW because it has resulted from fossil fuel-burning and other industrial waste clogging up the atmosphere:
Interesting, no? We're not just warming up, but rotting as well. And our agriculture requires soils within a certain PH range, so the chance that our species could starve in the bargain rears it's head.
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Yes, it is interesting. Several thousand dead in London, WoW!
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Indeed, and it goes from interesting to fascinating. As global mean temperatures rise, and it only takes a few degrees, mostly tropical flora & fauna will expand their ranges northward and we'll begin hearing more about such things as dengue fever and dengue hemorrhagic fever and their vectors in places where they were previously unknown. Dengue fever hurts!
While the growing season will become longer in northern latitudes, croplands in southern ones will become far less productive. Also tropical weeds and various crop pests will advance north. Forign cattle ticks are already established in FL.
From Veterinary Medicine Extension, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California Davis, Tulare (Kirk) and Animal Health Branch, Division of Animal Industry, California Department of Food and Agricultural (Hamlen).
Heartwater is a rickettsial disease of ruminants that occurs mostly in Africa and a few Caribbean Islands so why should dairymen in western United States even be remotely concerned about it? Heartwater is caused by the rickettsia Cowdria ruminantiu m and is a tick-borne disease. This means that the rickettsia is carried or transferred by ticks. The carrier ticks are in the family or genus, Amblyoma. Amblyoma ticks such as A. americanum, the Lone Star Tick and A. maculatum, the Gulf Coast Tick, are common in the US. These common ticks do not carry the Heartwater rickettsia, however, these ticks are similar to A. variegatum, the Bont Tick (Picture 1) that does carry the rickettsial agent of Heartwater. The carrier tic ks transmit the disease from one cow to another as they bite the cow and suck a blood meal (Picture 2).
The reason for concern is that the Bont Ticks having been showing up in the US. The ticks have been found in Florida on imported tortoises. Often pet owners become disenchanted with their exotic pets and release them into the wild. Released turtles wi th tick could easily transfer the ticks to other wild hosts. The ticks would certainly seek out other hosts, as they require three hosts to complete their life cycle. There is also the potential for infected ticks to arrive on Cattle Egrets (Picture 3) f lying in on hurricane winds from the Caribbean Islands. Each hurricane season brings new egrets to the US. These birds are seen commonly in California as they search for food in fields being irrigated.
Our cattle and wild ruminants are completely susceptible to Heartwater as it is a foreign animal disease that currently does not occur in the US. It has been estimated that we could expect between a 40% and 100% death rate if Heartwater entered the US . Clinical signs of Heartwater can be seen within 14 to 28 days after an infected tick feeds on a ruminant host. The death rate could be reduced by early treatment with tetracyclines if the disease is rapidly detected and properly diagnosed.
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And with these -- isn't this fun? -- will come various parasites of humans and their vectors, seeking fresh meat.
This fortunate fellow is playing midwife to a female guinea worm. It is hard to understand why he's not happy about it, as she is about to undergo the miracle of birth.
So you see, Bill, that warming, whatever it's cause(s) has the potential to be devastating in more ways than merely melting the ice caps & flooding Miami, and we'd damned well better quit fucking around with politics and get serious about it.
The US should be taking the lead on this, as we have the resources, intellectual & otherwise, to move quickly. But as long as the country is being run by industry-owned shitheads and puling, congressional pussies, nothing will happen; and when the problems are finally addressed, it will cost a lot more to try and solve them. If they are not already insoluble.
Let's all get together and wish a guinea worm or two on GW Bush and that jerk-off from OK -- whassisface: Inhofe. Or maybe a bit of lymphatic filariasis. Either or both in twain would certainly adjust their attitudes as well as change their minds.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 06:49:40 [Permalink]
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| Yuck. |
-Chaloobi
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 09:38:16 [Permalink]
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Bill Scott:
The US voters can use their vote to push the US government to act well before the UN ever could. And as a sovereign nation that is the way it should be. |
So, while you and the rest of the deniers are busy telling people that the IPCC report is baloney and that Al Gore is just a fear monger, and warning of dire economic consequences and more taxes if we actually act to change the way we do business, you also expect the voters to make informed decisions at the voting booth?
While you say that you are personally green and are for greener technologies, the message you promote is exactly opposite. If instead you took the position that while you presently doubt the scientific consensus on the extent of harm due to man made causes of global warming, you also take the position that in this case it is better to err on the side of caution and the possibility that you global warming skeptics may be wrong because the consequences are so much more dire if you are wrong.
Just how do you expect the voters to push hard for greener technologies if you deniers keep telling them that the issue is really Al Gore (it isn't) and that he is just an alarmist?
We don't just differ on Al Gore and the UN. We differ on how the deniers present the problem.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 12:40:13 [Permalink]
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| [i]Originally posted by [b]Kil |
| While you say that you are personally green and are for greener technologies, the message you promote is exactly opposite. If instead you took the position that while you presently doubt the scientific consensus on the extent of harm due to man made causes of global warming, you also take the position that in this case it is better to err on the side of caution and the possibility that you global warming skeptics may be wrong because the consequences are so much more dire if you are wrong. |
I see your point, kil. Let's see just how much we really agree, and disagree. If you held the reigns of power here in the US lay out for me, in layman's terms, how you would push forward in the fight against MMGW and submit to me your energy plan for the future of the US. I will then tell you what I agree with and what I don't agree with and offer up some commentary as to why. Let's pretend that we are the government and we have to come to some sort of compromise on how we move forward with our country. Come on, it'll be a fun exercise.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 13:15:16 [Permalink]
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Crops failed, livestock perished, and the Peruvian government declared a state of emergency, because of the cold?
What do you guys make of this? Sensationalism?
http://tinyurl.com/38psmn
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 13:27:39 [Permalink]
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| Mr. Wall, GW wont stop it from being very cold occasionally. Some small areas may even see a major cold snap if the wind and water currents change. At least you're not as bad as Drudge, who mentions every single cold event as if that were some sort of valid evidence against GW. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 14:27:54 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf |
| GW wont stop it from being very cold occasionally. Some small areas may even see a major cold snap if the wind and water currents change. |
But this doesn't seem to be limited to a small area, or occasionally?
| South America this year experienced one of its coldest winters in decades. |
| In Buenos Aires, snow fell for the first time since the year 1918. |
| Crops failed, livestock perished, and the Peruvian government declared a state of emergency |
| Johannesburg, South Africa, had the first significant snowfall in 26 years |
| Australia experienced the coldest June ever |
| In northeastern Australia, the city of Townsville underwent the longest period of continuously cold weather since 1941 |
| Last January, $1.42 billion worth of California produce was lost to a devastating five-day freeze |
| In April, a killing freeze destroyed 95 percent of South Carolina's peach crop, and 90 percent of North Carolina's apple harvest |
| At Charlotte, N.C., a record low temperature of 21 degrees Fahrenheit on April 8 was the coldest ever recorded for April, breaking a record set in 1923 |
| On June 8, Denver recorded a new low of 31 degrees Fahrenheit. Denver's temperature records extend back to 1872. |
| On Dec. 7, St. Cloud, Minn., set a new record low of minus 15 degrees Fahrenheit. On the same date, record low temperatures were also recorded in Pennsylvania and Ohio. |
| On Dec. 4, in Seoul, Korea, the temperature was a record minus 5 degrees Celsius |
| Meacham, Ore., the minimum temperature was 12 degrees Fahrenheit colder than the previous record low set in 1952 |
| The Canadian government warns that this winter is likely to be the coldest in 15 years. |
Are you sure this all fits nice and neatly into the MMGW model? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 12/19/2007 14:31:56 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 14:42:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Are you sure this all fits nice and neatly into the MMGW model?
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Remember that video I gave you to watch for homework? Remember what the man said? "'Global Warming' is something of a misnomer and 'Climate Change' is little better. What we're really talking about here is 'Climate Destabilization.'"
Now ask yourself, do those facts fit nice and neatly into the Climate Destabilization model? What do you think, Bill?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 14:54:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Crops failed, livestock perished, and the Peruvian government declared a state of emergency, because of the cold?
What do you guys make of this? Sensationalism? |
Global Warming means that the AVERAGE TEMPERATURE is increasing.
It doesn't mean there can't be an increased temperature difference between places as well. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 12/19/2007 14:55:32 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 15:21:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Bill scott
Crops failed, livestock perished, and the Peruvian government declared a state of emergency, because of the cold?
What do you guys make of this? Sensationalism? |
Global Warming means that the AVERAGE TEMPERATURE is increasing.
It doesn't mean there can't be an increased temperature difference between places as well.
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Yes, since the mid-19th century, the mean global temperature has increased by 0.7 degrees Celsius, from what I have been hearing. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 15:23:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Bill scott
Are you sure this all fits nice and neatly into the MMGW model?
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Remember that video I gave you to watch for homework? Remember what the man said? "'Global Warming' is something of a misnomer and 'Climate Change' is little better. What we're really talking about here is 'Climate Destabilization.'"
Now ask yourself, do those facts fit nice and neatly into the Climate Destabilization model? What do you think, Bill?
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I will watch it again tonight and reply. I watched it with one eye the other day. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 11:27:24 [Permalink]
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Hot off the press: http://tinyurl.com/2hmrer
A little snippet:
U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007
Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.
The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee's office of the GOP Ranking Member details the views of the scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom spoke out in 2007.
Even some in the establishment media now appear to be taking notice of the growing number of skeptical scientists. In October, the Washington Post Staff Writer Juliet Eilperin conceded the obvious, writing that climate skeptics "appear to be expanding rather than shrinking." Many scientists from around the world have dubbed 2007 as the year man-made global warming fears “bites the dust.”
This blockbuster Senate report lists the scientists by name, country of residence, and academic/institutional affiliation. It also features their own words, biographies, and weblinks to their peer reviewed studies and original source materials as gathered from public statements, various news outlets, and websites in 2007. This new “consensus busters” report is poised to redefine the debate.
Many of the scientists featured in this report consistently stated that numerous colleagues shared their views, but they will not speak out publicly for fear of retribution. Atmospheric scientist Dr. Nathan Paldor, Professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, author of almost 70 peer-reviewed studies, explains how many of his fellow scientists have been intimidated.
“Many of my colleagues with whom I spoke share these views and report on their inability to publish their skepticism in the scientific or public media,” Paldor wrote. [Note: See also July 2007 Senate report detailing how skeptical scientists have faced threats and intimidation - |
Scientists from Around the World Dissent
The distinguished scientists featured in this new report are experts in diverse fields, including: climatology; oceanography; geology; biology; glaciology; biogeography; meteorology; oceanography; economics; chemistry; mathematics; environmental sciences; engineering; physics and paleoclimatology. Some of those profiled have won Nobel Prizes for their outstanding contribution to their field of expertise and many shared a portion of the UN IPCC Nobel Peace Prize with Vice President Gore.
Additionally, these scientists hail from prestigious institutions worldwide, including: Harvard University; NASA; National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR); Massachusetts Institute of Technology; the UN IPCC; the Danish National Space Center; U.S. Department of Energy; Princeton University; the Environmental Protection Agency; University of Pennsylvania; Hebrew University of Jerusalem; the International Arctic Research Centre; the Pasteur Institute in Paris; the Belgian Weather Institute; Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute; the University of Helsinki; the National Academy of Sciences of the U.S., France, and Russia; the University of Pretoria; University of Notre Dame; Stockholm University; University of Melbourne; University of Columbia; the World Federation of Scientists; and the University of London.
The voices of many of these hundreds of scientists serve as a direct challenge to the often media |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 11:36:23 [Permalink]
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I missed this: http://tinyurl.com/2xrttv
New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears
August 20, 2007
New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears
Posted By Marc Morano – Marc_Morano@EPW.Senate.Gov
<mailto:Marc_Morano@EPW.Senate.Gov> – 4:44 PM ET
Washington DC – An abundance of new peer-reviewed studies, analyses, and data error discoveries in the last several months has prompted scientists to declare that fear of catastrophic man-made global warming “bites the dust” and the scientific underpinnings for alarm may be “falling apart.” The latest study to cast doubt on climate fears finds that even a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide would not have the previously predicted dire impacts on global temperatures. This new study is not unique, as a host of recent peer-reviewed studies have cast a chill on global warming fears.
“Anthropogenic (man-made) global warming bites the dust,” declared astronomer Dr. Ian Wilson after reviewing the new study which has been accepted for publication in the Journal of Geophysical Research. Another scientist said the peer-reviewed study overturned “in one fell swoop” the climate fears promoted by the UN and former Vice President Al Gore. The study entitled “Heat Capacity, Time Constant, and Sensitivity of Earth's Climate System,” was authored by Brookhaven National Lab scientist Stephen Schwartz.
“Effectively, this (new study) means that the global economy will spend trillions of dollars trying to avoid a warming of ~ 1.0 K by 2100 A.D.” Dr. Wilson wrote in a note to the Senate Environment & Public Works Committee on August 19, 2007. Wilson, a former operations astronomer at the Hubble Space Telescope Institute in Baltimore MD, was referring to the trillions of dollars that would be spent under such international global warming treaties like the Kyoto Protocol.
“Previously, I have indicated that the widely accepted values for temperature increase associated with a doubling of CO2 were far too high i.e. 2 – 4.5 Kelvin. This new peer-reviewed paper claims a value of 1.1 +/- 0.5 K increase for a doubling of CO2,” he added. |
Overturning IPCC consensus ‘in one fell swoop'
Southern Hemisphere is COOLING
Climate models made by unlicensed 'software engineers'
Sampling of very recent inconvenient scientific developments for proponents of catastrophic man-made global warming:
| 1) New peer-reviewed study finds global warming over last century linked to natural causes: |
| 2) Belgian weather institute's (RMI) August 2007 study dismisses decisive role of CO2 in warming: |
| 3) Updated: September 27, 2007: New peer-reviewed study counters global warming theory, finds carbon dioxide did not end the last Ice Age. |
| 4) New peer-reviewed study finds clouds may greatly reduce global warming: |
| 5) New peer-reviewed study finds that the solar system regulates the earth's climate - |
| 6) New peer-reviewed study on Surface Warming and the Solar Cycle: |
| 7) Update - August 29, 2007: SURVEY: LESS THAN HALF OF ALL PUBLISHED SCIENTISTS ENDORSE GLO |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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An international team of MMGW deniers (scientists)
