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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 11:48:07 [Permalink]
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Now, now. Someone - I forget who - is quoted as having said "Love your neighbor", "Turn the other cheek", "Love your enemies", and "Bless them that curse you". I'd imagine that some people might have reason to take these teachings to heart.
Oh, wait. That was before the finale of the book, when this guy's message changed 180 degrees, and smiting became acceptable again. I remember now. |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 12:07:50 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer as the forum Mod, asked us to back off name-calling "a bit." IMO, that's not quite like a wholesale condemnation for any of us going ad hom, but rather a general call for restraint. As one of the "rats" being sanctimoniously preached to by Doomar, I personally sympathize with and share H.H.'s impatience and contempt.
Doomar has engaged a skeptical forum and accused its participants in general of being "rats." Yet he will not answer pertinent questions. No even Biblical queries asked politely (as with my repeated question of how the story of Job fits into his concept of a "god of love.")
Then this matter: When does ad hom actually become relevant? I propose it does when a debater himself becomes the issue through his actions. Doomar begins this iteration by calling us all rats, and continues it by quoting selected scripture and "witnessing." He won't answer scriptural questions that might be difficult, and he refuses to give any evidence outside his personal faith.
If not personal name-calling, his actions certainly seem to deserve a bit of cussing.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/14/2009 12:16:16 |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2009 : 13:21:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by R.Wreck
Doomar:
Please elucidate on the lies of evolution. What specifically in evolutionary science do you believe to be a lie, and why. Please cite your sources.
Thanks
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Have done that in other forums, but that is not the topic here. Perhaps will in another forum if time permits. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 13:26:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Doomar
But in response to your deluge of blasphemy, if God does exist, what has he done to you to provoke such hatred and contempt? |
He did kill everyone on the planet with a giant flood. That's gotta earn at least a demerit.
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So you believe the flood really occurred in history? That would be acknowledging some accuracy in the Bible and that God exists. If so, I can move on to why. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 13:35:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Doomar
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Doomar
But in response to your deluge of blasphemy, if God does exist, what has he done to you to provoke such hatred and contempt? |
He did kill everyone on the planet with a giant flood. That's gotta earn at least a demerit.
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So you believe the flood really occurred in history? That would be acknowledging some accuracy in the Bible and that God exists. |
Note the conditional (bolding, size change added by me). Sometimes used in a thought experiment. Declarative reply does not indicate agreement with the conditional statement.
If so, I can move on to why.
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...Because he loves us.
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 13:44:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Doomar
So you believe the flood really occurred in history? That would be acknowledging some accuracy in the Bible and that God exists. If so, I can move on to why.
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If we don't buy that nonsense, you won't move on to why?
How about Luke 6:30: “Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.”
Please, please, can I have all your money? And then, can you please sell all your property and send me the money from the sale? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 13:50:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
In my life I accept responsibility for those things, bad things, that do not go according to plan and try to learn from my mistakes. Like wise when things go well due to some decision or action I have taken I am just as apt to give myself a pat on the back. I find this to be a healthy balance.
And I just don't care what the motivations of the individuals are we should strive toward good things.
I have seen no evidence to support the existence of your God or any God.
regardless of motivation man is responsible for the good and the bad things done in this world.
A wrong belief about something is worse than knowing nothing.
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Thanks for taking time to answer those questions, Moakley.
The following and most of this discussion supposes an afterlife and is founded on belief in a spiritual dimension that is invisible to this physical dimension we live within. I am always asked to prove that it exists. It is by faith in God and the Bible that a man beholds that realm. My courser response: prove that it doesn't.
Is it really that hard to understand how God must judge men who do bad and won't change, even when given the choice and grace to do so? Hell is prison in the afterlife where injustices are made right and no criminal escapes.
On the other hand, is it hard to understand how He would reward those who turn from their sins, also by His grace (His help), and follow His way of salvation for their souls? Heaven is that place of reward, where man are free to continue growing in their knowledge and experience of God and will see God face to face, along with Christ, all other believers, and all the angels that the Bible says exist. Not all who believe in a spiritual realm will go their only those who trust in the Savior. "By grace are you saved, through faith." |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 14:08:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Doomar
It is by faith in God and the Bible that a man beholds that realm. My courser response: prove that it doesn't. |
Epic FAIL
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 14:21:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
So your God must be very conflicted. He loves us, but is willing to send us to eternal torment, Poor God, if only he had left better evidence of his existence. |
God is not willing that any perish (II Peter 3:9) but wants all men to come to repentance. Read Isaiah 55:7 - says the same. You believe in good and bad. So does God. You think good is an option, God does not. God teaches what is good and what is bad. You agree with some of His definition but disagree in vital points. Having other gods whom you trust in, other sources above the only God, that tell you what is good or bad and whom you serve (including yourself), is unacceptable and vain and selfish.
The evidence of God is there. Did you expect everything to just fall in your lap. You work hard to make money and buy a home, food, clothes, cars. There is a price. The way to heaven is a narrow and difficult way. The beginning door is very small and hard to find and only the humble will enter. God will show you the way, but illumination and revelation regarding God and His Son does not come to the proud and arrogant. "God resists the proud." God is the most humble being in the Universe and he dwells with those of a contrite heart. You don't like to be around the arrogant, egotistical guy at the office? Neither does God. But he loves men, so he abases proud, arrogant people in His good time, so they might change their minds and then He could stand them. He doesn't force anybody, however. He's not the puppet master.
Everybody stands on death row in this life, facing the finality of death and then judgment. The Judge sent His only Son to pay for man's crimes. He lived a life unlike any other man, performing miracles, raising the dead, healing any sick person who came to Him and many that were too seek to travel to Him. The rulers condemned and killed Him because He exposed their sinful deeds to the people and didn't play favorites. He also claimed to be just who He was, God's only Son. He rose from the dead and showed Himself to his disciples, then filled them with the Holy Ghost and continued to work with them, unseen.
This is the Advocate given for you as you await on death row. If you trust Him, and repent of your evil deeds, He'll get you off and you'll escape the final judgment and even receive a place of comfort and many blessings in this life, especially the things that can't be bought with money.
| moakley-- Anyway Doomar where is this hell that you are so frightened of. |
Hell is below us. It is part of a spiritual realm. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 14:26:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
You seem to fail grasping this simple concept: God, being omniscient and ominipotent, shares the responsibility with everything that happens.
He is not pulling the trigger, if you believe in free will, but he definitely gave everybody the guns!
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Simon, agreed, but God has and is doing something about it. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 14:38:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
You also have not started to present anything like an 'evidence'.
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I have given metaphors and Bible verses, but yes, it is not within my capability to present the physical door to hell so you can Google it on the map. Here are some clues to which road leads there: The road there is broad and there are many ways that lead to it, all of them involve sin and unbelief in God. Some go the way of the adulterer, some, the way of the drug addict or alcoholic, some, the way of the liar, some, the way of the hypocrite, some, the way of the blasphemer, some, the way of the atheist, some, the way of the party animal. Some choose hate and unforgiveness, some choose fear and cowardice, some worship idols, some choose illicit sex: fornication, prostitution, homosexual sex, some are heretics like Billy Graham or Oral Roberts, some choose fame and power to control others like George Bush or Barrack Obama or Osama bin Laden.
As I said, there are many ways. It's an easy path to travel with a sudden, devastating, and terrible end. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 15:34:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Doomar
Originally posted by Dave W.
What reasons do we have to think that the Creator of evil will make good on His alleged deal, anyway? |
He has already made good for me. LOL! I don't have to wait to find out. |
What a bizarre, a-Biblical theology you've got, Doomar. The current Covenant clearly has no bearing on this Earthly life, yet you think it does.| Creating hell is not the same as doing evil. |
I never said it was. I said God is the creator of evil. Undoubtedly, since God created everything, He must have created evil. And we know evil existed before the Fall, because if it hadn't then the Tree couldn't have contained knowledge of evil, the Serpent would have been incapable of tempting Eve and Adam would have been incapable of disobeying God.| Are you admitting that there is a God, Dave, in noting he is "creator of evil?" Or is this just some mind game with you as I suspect? |
I am granting the existence of God as a premise for this argument of yours, nothing more. I am able to follow an argument to its logical conclusions even if I believe the premises to be false. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 15:37:36 [Permalink]
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I hope for Doomar's sake that he's got the right god, and that the Bible wasn't actually written under the influence of the Devil. Since the Devil is able to influence physical objects, including the chemicals in the brain to produce euphoric feelings when thinking about Him, it is entirely possible and not falsifiable that the Devil is actually behind the writings of the Bible, and that everyone who goes to church and prays/glorifies what they think is God is actually worshiping the Devil. All the good feelings derived were just manipulations done to the brain. Any prayers answered were done by the Devil to help keep his trick in place. After all, He is the Master Decepticon.
It would be absolutely impossible to know if one was worshiping the correct God or mistakenly worshiping the Devil. Given that, the Hindu's could be right, and Doomar will be with us in Hell. Or perhaps some other religion is right - or some future religion is right - and we just have to hope that their God is a lot more benevolent that the Judeo-Christian god. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 17:54:21 [Permalink]
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Originally by Doomar
Hell is below us. It is part of a spiritual realm. |
Sounds pithy & precise. But do either of these sentences actually say anything?
1) "Hell is below us." In what sense? Geologically? Physically in some other sense? Morally? What??
How would one be able to say he knows anything at all about hell, including whether it exists? Has anyone ever come back from hell (reliably) to report on what it was like?
Alternate: "Hell is beneath us".[/snark]
2) "It is part of a spiritual realm." What is a spiritual realm? Does "a" spiritual realm imply that there's more than one? How can anyone know ANY of this - how can one tell the difference between fantasy/fiction and an actual spiritual realm?
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 18:09:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Doomar
Thanks for taking time to answer those questions, Moakley.
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You're welcome. Although I am wondering why you didn't respond to any of what I had to say.
Originally posted by Doomar
The following and most of this discussion supposes an afterlife and is founded on belief in a spiritual dimension that is invisible to this physical dimension we live within. I am always asked to prove that it exists. It is by faith in God and the Bible that a man beholds that realm. My courser response: prove that it doesn't.
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Making the positive assertion that burden is yours. Besides I have never asked you what you believe.
Originally posted by Doomar
Is it really that hard to understand how God must judge men who do bad and won't change, even when given the choice and grace to do so? Hell is prison in the afterlife where injustices are made right and no criminal escapes.
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A God as intelligent as your God is supposed to be should understand that a firm belief, to many, is a bad way to determine the validity of any assertion. And you have got me going to your religions hell. Well that's not very nice since it is your God's injustice of meting out punishment to good people whose only crime is not believing in him. The heck with that, I believe that your God is going to the hell of a more power God for its heinous acts of punishing good people. 
Originally posted by Doomar
… "By grace are you saved, through faith."
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More of the same.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Hell, your final destination?
