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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2008 : 08:26:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
There is no new revelation from God. I will let John MacArthur speak on the issue.http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/NEWREV.HTM
The Bible is a progressive revelation from God that is complete. Nobody will receive a revelation from God in our day. So if someone says God told me to kill so and so you can be sure it was not from God.
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If god commanded you to kill, would you do it? The answer would have to be yes, right? And you say god wouldn't do that, then I bring the OT in, because it certainly has in the past. I notice you don't ever tackle what god in the past. Is that because it is hard to talk about?
Or, are you saying god wouldn't do that because there can be no more revelation? That would mean that prayer is out the window too?
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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the seeker
New Member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 17:43:22 [Permalink]
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What I think is that there is no hell, that when you die, you most likely just rot in the ground and turn into carbon for living things to breathe in.
Every religion has a different interpretation of hell--and it's all stupid.
I think that religion and God are just allusions formed by your mind...crutches people lean on to find guidance, to find support and "love" from a supreme being that resides in your head and in your head only. But that's just my opinion. |
My signature consists of my not having a signature. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 19:44:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
...You need to humble yourself and acknowledge you are not a good person, you deserve eternal punishment in hell for your sin against a holy and infinite God. Only then can you understand John 3:16... |
John in room 316
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 20:38:57 [Permalink]
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Humbert
Robb asks:| Are you certain there is no God? |
You answer:| No, but I'm damn confident one wasn't involved with the bible in any way. |
Robb then asks:| Then why do you portray yourself as an atheist? |
Your reply:| Because an atheist is someone who doesn't believe that any gods exist, which I don't. Certainty is not a requirement. People who criticize atheists on the grounds that they can't know with certainty that no gods exist grossly misunderstand what the atheist position actually says |
and| Theists claim that at least one god (sometimes more) exists. Atheism is simply the position that theists have failed to adequately support that claim. |
Why would that position not be more properly described as agnosticism? Or, to phrase it differently, in your view, what is the difference between atheism and agnosticism?
You state that you believe that no gods exist. But you also state that you are not certain of that belief. Is this not the position of an agnostic? Are you not ascribing degrees of probability to your (and others) belief systems?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 22:19:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
...what is the difference between atheism and agnosticism? |
I'm of a mind that there is no difference.
The popular definitions of the words are clearly different. One means "belief in no god(s)," and the other means "wishy-washy failure to have an opinion." But Huxley coined "agnostic" to mean just what's its roots mean, "without mystical knowledge." Someone who is an atheist because they lack evidence for a god is an agnostic under that definition. And nobody who lacks mystical knowledge would be a theist.
But really, it seems that Huxley coined "agnostic" in order to avoid the negative baggage that "atheist" had already accrued in his day (and which continues today), but it really meant the same thing.
H., among others (like myself), is obviously trying to take the defintions back from the popular usage, a usage which really leaves little room for the "lack of evidence" sort of atheism. The people who think that "atheism" means only "positive belief in no god(s)" and that agnosticism is a 50-50 toss-up position are the sorts of people who simply don't understand the position of taking a strong stand on the lack of evidence. They assume that everyone has either made a choice or has chosen to not choose at all - a black-or-white world which simply doesn't match up to reality.
Allowing the popular definitions to frame the discussion does a disservice to all. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/27/2008 : 04:44:05 [Permalink]
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"An agnostic is nothing but an atheist who lacks the courage of his convictions." ~~ Don't recall who said that. Heh, wish it'd been me.
I don't believe in much of anything. Belief creates boundaries thereby limiting inquiry and warping imagination.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 10:28:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
"An agnostic is nothing but an atheist who lacks the courage of his convictions." ~~ Don't recall who said that. Heh, wish it'd been me.
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As I recall, the last time you posted that quote I responded with a resounding "bite me." Guess it didn't take...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 10:46:01 [Permalink]
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An agnostic is an atheist, because an agnostic does not have a god-belief.
The thing many people do not comprehend is this: Dismissal of a claim based on lack of evidence is a strong stance. It is often dismissed as being wishy-washy by those who hold strong views on the opposing ends of an issue, but that is because most people don't understand logic.
If your claim is dismissed because it lacks evidence, it is the same as being told you are just making stuff up.
An agnostic, by calling themselves agnostic, is telling the people on the opposing ends that they are full of shit.
Thats what I get from reading Huxley anyway, the impression that he was basically telling both sides of the god/no-god argument that their strongly stated positions made without supporting evidence were equally stupid, and that the only defensible position was one that dismissed deities as unevidenced without making a definite claim against their existence.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 10:59:38 [Permalink]
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Dude:
An agnostic is an atheist, because an agnostic does not have a god-belief. |
Bingo!
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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the seeker
New Member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 12:00:52 [Permalink]
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| An agnostic is an atheist, because an agnostic does not have a god-belief. |
Not necessarily. Atheists are cynics, while agnostics are simply skeptics. I am one myself, and...we don't exactly NOT believe in God, we suspect that there might be a "god" or a supreme being out there. We just think that there is no evidence to prove it, and no evidence to disprove it. Therefore, we're neither theists nor atheists....and that's why we have our own name, which is "agnostic".
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My signature consists of my not having a signature. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/27/2008 : 12:59:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by filthy
"An agnostic is nothing but an atheist who lacks the courage of his convictions." ~~ Don't recall who said that. Heh, wish it'd been me.
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As I recall, the last time you posted that quote I responded with a resounding "bite me." Guess it didn't take...
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Oh, was that you? I remember the incident, just forgot who was involved. You really should be more forcful when you make such remarks....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 13:11:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the seeker
Atheists are cynics, while agnostics are simply skeptics. |
Pure nonsense.
| I am one myself, and...we don't exactly NOT believe in God, we suspect that there might be a "god" or a supreme being out there. We just think that there is no evidence to prove it, and no evidence to disprove it. Therefore, we're neither theists nor atheists....and that's why we have our own name, which is "agnostic". |
Well, you need to keep seeking, seeker, because these definitions seem to be completely your own personal invention with no relation to their actual meanings. As others have already noted, one may be an agnostic atheist without contradiction.
Atheism concerns belief while agnosticism concerns the limits of knowledge. If you don't believe me, feel free to read up on those subjects yourself.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/27/2008 13:12:12 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 13:47:03 [Permalink]
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filthy:
You really should be more forcful when you make such remarks.... |
Well, perhaps I lack the courage of my convictions. Ever think of that?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 14:18:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
filthy:
You really should be more forcful when you make such remarks.... |
Well, perhaps I lack the courage of my convictions. Ever think of that?
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Nah. I'm just joshin' ya. Just gettin' warmed up for April.
It's fast approaching, you know, and we've got to be in shape for it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 16:56:21 [Permalink]
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the seeker said:
Not necessarily. Atheists are cynics, while agnostics are simply skeptics. I am one myself, and...we don't exactly NOT believe in God, we suspect that there might be a "god" or a supreme being out there. We just think that there is no evidence to prove it, and no evidence to disprove it. Therefore, we're neither theists nor atheists....and that's why we have our own name, which is "agnostic".
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Perhaps you should go read Huxley.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Hell, your final destination?
