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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/25/2008 : 14:15:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Robb
I disagree. Jesus said he was God. If this is not true, then nothing in Christianity is true. Parts of it cannot be true and others not true. |
So... I am to abandon decades of skepticism, demanding firm evidence to support wild claims, to take the word of an itinerate and quite possibly insane rabbi whose actions and speech were written about by his faithful followers, then? Hell, Robb, that's the very definition of 'faith.' I do not trust 'faith' and have none in much of anything, myself. There's just too many forms of it and one hell of a lot (nearly all?) of it is misguided. Indeed, a great many of mankind's trivales, religious and otherwise, can be directly ascribed to misplaced 'faith.'
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I understand that you have decided that Jesus was not God. I wish you would reconsider. However, do you think anything in the Bible is true?
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Sure; if only some of the references that have been archologically confirmed. The supernatural stuff, including the various personas of God, I disregard until such time as they might be shown to be factual. Until then, as far as I am concerned, they are as much a fantasy as Harry Potter.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 14:39:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
What God says is true, the Bible says God cannot lie. |
Yet the Bible clearly says that rabbits chew their cud. And that grasshoppers have four legs. And that all of the countries of the world can be seen from a mountaintop.
If it's an all-or-nothing choice, Robb, then "all" is obviously wrong.
(So is "nothing" because some things are obviously correct. People eat, have children, sleep, get drunk, rape, kill, love, etc. We even have independent verification of some towns and people mentioned in the Bible.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 15:24:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Robb said:
James said “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”
[quote]How can true religion condone murder? |
Read the OT and ask that again. You have a different definition of murder? Like "it's not murder if god commands it?"
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I know you are busy with other posts, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
You know there are parts in the bible where god commands his people to kill. Since god said so, is this murder?
If not, then that means you can kill if you believe that god says it is okay to do so.
If you say this is murder, then your religion is not true.
Sticky wicket, ain't it? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 01/25/2008 15:25:45 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 17:53:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck Posted - 01/25/2008 : 09:44:00
Humbug will be green with envy! |
Originally posted by H. Humbert Posted - 01/25/2008 : 10:10:44
My, how bngbuck loves preening more than a transsexual in assless chaps during Mardi Gras. bngbuck, it would be nice if you could go at least one post without trying to make everything about yourself. Your self-obsession is embarrassing to behold. |
Originally posted by bngbuck Posted - 01/25/2008 : 11:09:34
Now, now Hummy! Sit down and take a few deep breaths. Just have patience, you'll grow up some day! Meanwhile, get used to embarassment! It'll happen the rest of your life, which is most of it!
And to watch nearly-grown men whine in public is, indeed, embarassing!
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Originally posted by H.Humbert Posted - 01/25/2008 : 11:28:00
bngbuck, I tried to get you back on track, but if all you're capable of doing is posting infantile insults, please send them to me in PMs. There is no reason you need to pollute a thread in which other people are trying to have a fruitful discussion. |
Humbert, I tried to get you back on track, but if all you're capable of doing is to start posting infantile insults, please send them to me in PMs. There is no reason you need to pollute a thread in which other people are trying to have a fruitful discussion.
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 18:24:59 [Permalink]
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Boron 10.....
| It doesn't matter who started it or who's right. This is not intended to be a forum for personal bickering. |
Boron,you're absolutely right, I agree completely. I apologize to all for permitting myself to become involved in such silliness! Sometimes it's hard to keep the inner child under control!
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 21:04:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by pleco
Robb said:
James said “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”
[quote]How can true religion condone murder? |
Read the OT and ask that again. You have a different definition of murder? Like "it's not murder if god commands it?"
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I know you are busy with other posts, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
You know there are parts in the bible where god commands his people to kill. Since god said so, is this murder?
If not, then that means you can kill if you believe that god says it is okay to do so.
If you say this is murder, then your religion is not true.
Sticky wicket, ain't it?
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There is no new revelation from God. I will let John MacArthur speak on the issue.http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/NEWREV.HTM
The Bible is a progressive revelation from God that is complete. Nobody will receive a revelation from God in our day. So if someone says God told me to kill so and so you can be sure it was not from God. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 21:14:59 [Permalink]
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Robb, so when Bush said God told him to invade Iraq you would agree that this is not evidence that Bush is a born again christian this is instead evidence that Bush is psychotic?
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 21:24:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
Robb, so when Bush said God told him to invade Iraq you would agree that this is not evidence that Bush is a born again christian this is instead evidence that Bush is psychotic?
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No. I do not beleive that President Bush heard from God. It was reported as second hand and not from President Bush himself. Also he was supposed to have heard God tell him to give Isreals land away to the Palestinians. Not something I think God would tell anybody.
Edited to add: I do not know if he is a Christian or Psychotic. I do not believe he was ever diagnosed as Psychotic. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
| Edited by - Robb on 01/25/2008 21:26:36 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 21:31:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
There is no new revelation from God. |
Did that information come to you in a revelation?
The Bible is a progressive revelation from God that is complete. Nobody will receive a revelation from God in our day. So if someone says God told me to kill so and so you can be sure it was not from God.
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Well, even John MacArthur would only go so far as saying "I believe when He completed the New Testament, He ceased to give revelation..." He mentions the difficulties in knowing who actually has received revelations, and mentions some ways one might tell. But he never goes so far as to claim it is impossible.
Robb, I've noticed that you do this a lot. You find some opinion or interpretation of the bible which you like, then you repeat it back and claim it as an infallible fact. But just because you find a way to interpret the bible which makes sense to you doesn't mean you have found the way to interpret the bible. Your certainty on these matters seems more like a defense mechanism stemming from a fear of being wrong than from any indisputable evidence in your favor.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/25/2008 21:32:22 |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 22:08:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Robb, I've noticed that you do this a lot. You find some opinion or interpretation of the bible which you like, then you repeat it back and claim it as an infallible fact. But just because you find a way to interpret the bible which makes sense to you doesn't mean you have found the way to interpret the bible. |
There are many things I have changed my mind about over the years. There are also many things I cannot explain to anyone such as the trinity. I can only look to the Bible as a whole and come up with truth using the entire bible as a progressive revelation of God. There are many thing Christians disagree about just look at the 33,000 plus denominations. But the central message of Jesus is God and died for forgivness of sins and was raised form the dead so we do ot have to go to hell is really the only thing that we must agree upon to be called Christian. If I beleive this to be untrue then my faith is destroyed. Anything else I am wrong about would not shake my faith in the gospel.
| Your certainty on these matters seems more like a defense mechanism stemming from a fear of being wrong than from any indisputable evidence in your favor. |
Thank you Dr. Humbert, that must be the only explaination. Are you certain there is no God? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 22:20:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Are you certain there is no God?
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No, but I'm damn confident one wasn't involved with the bible in any way.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 22:38:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Robb
Are you certain there is no God?
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No, but I'm damn confident one wasn't involved with the bible in any way.
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Then why do you portray yourself as an atheist? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 22:56:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Then why do you portray yourself as an atheist?
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Because an atheist is someone who doesn't believe that any gods exist, which I don't. Certainty is not a requirement. People who criticize atheists on the grounds that they can't know with certainty that no gods exist grossly misunderstand what the atheist position actually says.
Like in all things, the burden of proof is always on those making the positive claim. Theists claim that at least one god (sometimes more) exists. Atheism is simply the position that theists have failed to adequately support that claim.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 05:07:36 [Permalink]
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Is Bush a psychopath? You betcha! A brief reading of his history will confirm that.
Further, I doubt that his Christianity is much more than political lip service to the woo-woos on the far-right. He might not be an atheist, but he is certainly no follower of the Christ -- except when Jesus had his ugly on!
Mark:
4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matthew:
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
The Bible has got to be the most cherry-picked book ever in existence. In it, you can find justifaction for just about any species of perversion that might suit your fancy, and so is used extensivly if subtly by many aspiring to high office. Like the blatant con-job Bush handed the Religious Right, for example, wherein he promised action on abortion & so forth, and delivered squat. Prayer in school is another where he talked a good fight, fucked around a bit, then let it all die away. He did manage to gleefully throw some (of other people's) money at them, but what a bunch of suckers, eh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Hell, your final destination?
