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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2008 : 18:20:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Kil.....
And hey, I apparently understood it as he intended it to be understood. So I called grumpy on you.
You have my permission to call grumpy on me, or whatever it is that you suspect I am being, |
The best of intentions.....
"O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!"
The Bard of Ayrshire, Robert Burns
You're a grumpy old goat frequently, unlike myself who is obviously the soul of saccharine sweetness! Hmpff!
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One Queen Artemisia, as old stories tell,
When deprived of her husband she loved so well,
In respect for the love and affection he show'd her,
She reduc'd him to dust and she drank up the powder.
But Queen Netherplace, of a diff'rent complexion,
When called on to order the fun'ral direction,
Would have eat her dead lord, on a slender pretence,
Not to show her respect, but-to save the expense! |
Burns has long been a favorite of mine!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 21:10:01 [Permalink]
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JM......
Hell, I pee my pants reflexively and talk about it with abandon. It's one of the perks of senility!
I knew, of course, that you were demoiselle from the first post but kept your secret! It was this: | The internet has a long memory Mr. Buck. |
Only women address me as Mister. Everyone else, including Marfknox, usually use pronouns of respect such as "asshole"! My wife uses scatological neologisms that defy comprehension! Like Andy Kaufman, I only fight with girls!
Anyway, I'm glad you're out of the gender closet, JM! You ask...| And I haven't changed my position, and am a bit confused as to why people think I have? |
Well, your first post said...| If this turns out to be a real advance in energy science..... He's put a demonstration out there, and continues to both invite and facilitate understanding and replication of his work. |
Now, you're saying things like....| Either way, it's not the right response given the circumstances. He does indeed seem to be showing the strain of all this.....it ain't good science. |
and.....| Since Mr. Heins has now commenced shooting himself in the foot, I think I'll wait for a few more toes to fly, making the whole argument that much more difficult,... |
(Some comment deleted, naturally, that which doesn't support my position)
Are you now saying that as the evidence builds up concerning this latter-day Bhaskara II, you are still of the opinion that the Thane-a-ma-jig may actually work as fantasized? Why?
I'm sorry, JM, I'm not really trying to chase you around this thread, especially now that you have identified that you may wear a skirt from time to time. I try real hard not to overtly display my skirt-chasing in public!
But what the hell do you really see in the Thane of Ottawa's circuitlocutions? Yeah, a chance of success, but those goalposts are rapidly disappearing over the horizon. I dunno, but like all women, you baffle me! Yeah, that was sexist, but fuck it, I don't care!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 21:33:23 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
"When first my brave Johnie lad came to this town, He had a blue bonnet that wanted the crown; But now he has gotten a hat and a feather, Hey, brave Johnie lad, cock up your beaver!
Cock up your beaver, and cock it fu' sprush, We'll over the border, and gie them a brush; There's somebody there we'll teach better behaviour, Hey, brave Johnie lad, cock up your beaver!"
By contemporary standards, this should be flagged as "office dangerous" or whatever the PC warnings are supposed to be. But because it's dialectical, and thus of little interest to the Thought Police, I'll bet it passes muster! What do you think, Filth?
Bobbie Burns, the iconoclast's iconoclast! Long may he inspire yet another drop of single malt kindness, yet! For Auld Lang Syne!
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 02/22/2008 21:35:37 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2008 : 22:43:51 [Permalink]
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bng said:
| Like Andy Kaufman, I only fight with girls! |
Hrrmmm.... so, H.H. and Dave_W are girls?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 17:12:47 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
Well, Dave, like so many on these boards, has not seen fit to divulge his gender, except for occasional references to his wife; who posted very convincingly in her own right. I kind of smell androgen when Dave comes around, however.
Significantly, I have searched everywhere, learning more in the process about psoriasis than I even knew existed, for Dave's picture. Not a pixel! Image Shack, Photobucket, Snapfish; none of them ever heard of him!
He undoubtedly realizes that I and others are frantically searching for a picture of him to grotesquely distort and post in Humor with some outrageous comment as to his Forum image (Torquemada comes to mind); and he has taken supernatural cybernetic actions to keep Davemages from appearing on the Net!
HH is either a macho man or the bitchenest lesbian that ever growled, basso profundo, "gimme a shooter" to a frightened bartender. I've playfully needled him a few times about Lolita (the real reason anyone reads Nabakov) but he generally regally ignores me as a blathering old fool even fuller of himself than HH himself is (true)!
He sometimes positions himself as alter ego or defender of Marfknox, but I don't think that necessarily references his sexuality.
Marf is obviously a woman (I called her a lady once, and ended up being told to fuck off) You can draw any conclusions you want from that, Dude! I did!
Anyway, it's usually easier to fight with girls! They run and cry to Mommy and Daddy easier, and you can win by default! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 21:39:08 [Permalink]
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Dave, baby.....
Well, there's this, but hell, I'm not a child abuser!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 22:17:57 [Permalink]
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You knew that I knew that you knew about that image, because of your psoriasis comment. Obviously, that wasn't what I was talking about.
As I said, you haven't searched everywhere. Here's a hint: I know for a fact that after you began to post here, I have linked (within an SFN post) to an image of me taken within the last two calendar years.
Of course, now that you know that I'm not trying to hide, the search may not be as much fun for you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JustMe
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2008 : 11:42:26 [Permalink]
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Is it me, or looking closer is it just a tiny bit sad...
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| Edited by - JustMe on 02/24/2008 12:25:34 |
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JustMe
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:23:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
But what the hell do you really see in the Thane of Ottawa's circuitlocutions? Yeah, a chance of success, but those goalposts are rapidly disappearing over the horizon.
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The behaviour of his device remains unexplained at this time, so this is still a puzzle that is to me worthy of exploration and explanation. When and if that puzzle is solved it will add to human knowledge on some level, so for me there is very broad definition of success. Anything from a mundane "Oh THAT'S what was happening" to something useful and applicable to a world slowly choking on it's own exhaust will contribute something to the pool.
Do I think Mr. Heins' device throws over centuries of careful observations in phsyics and mathematics? Unlikely. Do I think that as of today we've discovered and mastered every method and every source of energy we ever will? Equally unlikely. As unintuitive as it may feel, his observations do justify his hypothesis as it relates to Lenz's law. Note I said 'justify' which is nothing close to 'prove'. There have been other hypotheses presented as well, and they all require vigourous proofs or disproofs equally, no matter their source.
You think he is scripted, and I think YOU are scripted. I am just not perceiving the objectivity and analytic processes I expected here, but maybe I just don't understand the percieved role of a capital "S" skeptic. I am also not perceiving what he has done to warrant the very personal derision. Attack the methods when appropriate, but what has given you license to attack the man? I find it thoughtless, as in both without adequate thought and without adequate consideration. Maybe this is just not of sufficient interest to people who have been there done that too many times, and therefore it doesn't warrant a serious look.
So maybe it *is* me, but I can assure you it's not because I'm not thinking critically and you are. |
| Edited by - JustMe on 02/24/2008 12:31:40 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:43:48 [Permalink]
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justme said:
| When and if that puzzle is solved it will add to human knowledge on some level |
Thats a bold assertion.
In light of the hundreds of documented failures(from honest mistakes) and equally well documented history of grift on this specific subject, it is extraordinarily unlikely that this guy is anything but a retard or a scam artist.
It would not be difficult for any university lab to examine his device, take it apart, run some tests, and determine what is happening.
So help me understand why he won't hand over the schematics or his prototype and let that examination occur?
Perhaps he knows that his result can't be independently replicated.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 02/24/2008 12:44:30 |
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JustMe
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:14:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
justme said:
| When and if that puzzle is solved it will add to human knowledge on some level |
Thats a bold assertion.
In light of the hundreds of documented failures(from honest mistakes) and equally well documented history of grift on this specific subject, it is extraordinarily unlikely that this guy is anything but a retard or a scam artist.
It would not be difficult for any university lab to examine his device, take it apart, run some tests, and determine what is happening.
So help me understand why he won't hand over the schematics or his prototype and let that examination occur?
Perhaps he knows that his result can't be independently replicated.
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Thanks for illustrating my point so nicely. And so quickly!
Here are the facts:
-Heins' generator is sitting in a lab at the University of Ottawa, and has been for some time. So you're right, it wouldn't be hard for them to run some tests. Which might explain why they have, and continue to do so. They have been unable to establish a cause for the behaviour of the device, and thus asked MIT to get involved.
-According to Heins, Marcus Zahn of MIT was offered $20,000 to study the device and document and report his findings, but has declined. There is a follow up article forthcoming in the Toronto Star tomorrow according to Heins, and I am hoping that may provide further information as to why Zahn will not be further involved.
-Heins has been handing out tips, tricks and traps for replicating his device on overunity.com for days. There is certainly the appearance of him supporting and facilitating replication at this time. The proof of that will have to wait for a successful replication.
So, Dude. Help ME understand why you felt justified in implying that the default assumption on Mr. Heins should be retard and/or scam artist based on a bunch of clearly unresearched nonsense. My point is, and always has been, that there is a legitimate process going on here that does not deserve the mindless snark. Even if it all turns to nothing. |
| Edited by - JustMe on 02/24/2008 13:27:57 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:56:06 [Permalink]
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The only thing I can find to support any of your assertions is Hein's statements.
Nothing from anyone in the University of Ottowa on any official part of their website.
Can't actually find a copy of the schematic and/or build instructions, just amature comments from Heins, which are less than useful.
A MIT prof(or any credible academic) is, obviously, not going to accept cash for something like this. That creates a clear ethical problem for them, so your mentioning it means only that you do not understand what is going on when a prof refuses such things.
So, to summarize, you have nothing but unevidenced assertions and red herrings.
| So, Dude. Help ME understand why you felt justified in implying that the default assumption on Mr. Heins should be retard and/or scam artist based on a bunch of clearly unresearched nonsense. |
So, the history of stupidity and grift associated with this topic is now "clearly unresearched nonsense"?
That is an interesting interpretation of the US patent office policy of refusing to accept patent applications(for "over-unity" stuff) without a functioning prototype.
Get back to me when you have something more than Heins' own claims on this.
Maybe a link to a detailed schematic and build instructions.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 14:07:23 [Permalink]
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JustMe, the default position of "crackpot" has come about through centuries of crackpottery that continue even today with other people. Heins is only given the benefit of a doubt by people who ignore or rationalize that history. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then odds are it's a duck.
Other facts you neglected:
1) Zahn's suggested measurements should have been done long ago.
2) Heins doesn't seem to want to do them, even though Zahn was clearly willing to help out with instructions.
3) Zahn seems to have declined the money because he didn't want to be associated with unsupported claims Heins had made.
4) Heins' support has mostly been "watch these videos," a poor substitue for handing out careful schematics.
5) When others fail to replicate Heins' effect, Heins tells them it's their problem, even before knowing the details.
If Heins is following the typical crackpot script, as the above suggests, why shouldn't critics save their time and effort by going along with him with our well-worn snarky script? If he ever solidly demonstrates something new, we'll all toss the script out immediately. Perhaps even eat some crow. Big deal.
But it's unlikely, because in all the history of science, the methods being used by Heins are not those of a person who has made a useful new discovery. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JustMe
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 14:05:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
If he ever solidly demonstrates something new, we'll all toss the script out immediately. Perhaps even eat some crow. Big deal.
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'Big deal' seems to presume that the collective you and others of similar approach are just passive observers. That there is no material influence on the way things play out, or by extension on their success or failure. Is that your belief?
The question is genuine. I'm truly just asking if that's the presumption, and trying to figure out what if anything it means either way. |
| Edited by - JustMe on 02/25/2008 14:06:29 |
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Super generator? Perpetual motion? Another grift?
