|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 02/25/2008 : 12:15:52 [Permalink]
|
So I don't understand your advocacy of Nader, if it extends to an intention to vote for the man. Why not just vote for McCain, who has at least a chance of getting elected?
|
I didn't say I was advocating anyone. My biggest problem is the insults and lack of thinking when it comes to vilifying Nader. Why did he have an obligation to make sure Gore or Kerry got elected? Sure, maybe I'm, to put it in terms Dude can understand, an asshole for voting for Nader and then Kerry. But why should Nader feel guilty because Gore and Kerry couldn't run their own campaigns? Besides that, Gore won the election! Fine. Take the win and go. Why blame Nader for your faults? I would not have voted for Gore had I not voted for Nader. He didn't steal my vote. Many people came out to make sure that they voted for Gore because Nader was in the mix. Many Democrats voted for Bush, and many Republicans voted for Nader.
If I vote for Nader, that is a vote for Nader, not a vote for someone else. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
 |
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 13:12:38 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by bngbuck
Gorgo.....
You are a dreamer, an idealist, not a political realist.
|
Here's the political reality. Maybe I shouldn't speak to you, because maybe you're in the upper 1 percent class. If you are, then continue to send your millions to the demopublicans.
Worker's rights will continue to erode, ethnic cleansing and murder and poverty will be a priority for Dude's heroes, and you'll continue to call yourselves "pragmatic" and think you're wise for using words like "loathe" and "asshole" and "douchebag" when you're talking about people who are attempting to improve something. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 14:45:54 [Permalink]
|
gorgo said:
| Worker's rights will continue to erode, ethnic cleansing and murder and poverty will be a priority for Dude's heroes, and you'll continue to call yourselves "pragmatic" and think you're wise for using words like "loathe" and "asshole" and "douchebag" when you're talking about people who are attempting to improve something. |
Listen fuckwit. Get down off your little pity pedestal and stop being a self-righteous asshole. Stop making personal statements that are designed only to piss people off.
Ralph Nader isn't trying to improve anything except his own bank account at this point. He made no difference in 2004, his candidacy in 2000 resulted in a Bush regime for 8 years, and his candidacy in 2008 doesn't do shit except increase the odds of having a president who is the farthest away from Nader's ideals of any candidate out there.
I'm sorry you are so wrapped up in your own self righteous pity and delusional worldview that you are willing to let Nader help the republicans win again.
Nader has become an asshole and a douchebag worthy only of ridicule and loathing. Because he, like you, is unwilling to accept responsibility for the consequences of his actions.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 15:37:10 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dude
gorgo said:
| Worker's rights will continue to erode, ethnic cleansing and murder and poverty will be a priority for Dude's heroes, and you'll continue to call yourselves "pragmatic" and think you're wise for using words like "loathe" and "asshole" and "douchebag" when you're talking about people who are attempting to improve something. |
Listen fuckwit. Get down off your little pity pedestal and stop being a self-righteous asshole. Stop making personal statements that are designed only to piss people off.
Ralph Nader isn't trying to improve anything except his own bank account at this point. He made no difference in 2004, his candidacy in 2000 resulted in a Bush regime for 8 years, and his candidacy in 2008 doesn't do shit except increase the odds of having a president who is the farthest away from Nader's ideals of any candidate out there.
I'm sorry you are so wrapped up in your own self righteous pity and delusional worldview that you are willing to let Nader help the republicans win again.
Nader has become an asshole and a douchebag worthy only of ridicule and loathing. Because he, like you, is unwilling to accept responsibility for the consequences of his actions.
|
The consequences of his actions is that he went in the hole, and he showed some of us just how corrupt the system that you support is.
The consequences of your actions is that few people of merit will go against the Democrat-Republican machine. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 16:16:54 [Permalink]
|
A snippet from King Ralph by Kaplan: "the illegal occupation of Palestine,"
We are in a struggle for our civilization against Muslim jihadists. Nader blames all the problems in the Middle East on American foreign policy; we do not need this attitude in the White House. If you all think fundamentalist Christians are a problem, start reading websites like the "Religion of Peace." Christians will annoy you, but they will not cut your head off. |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
| Edited by - Pelayo on 02/25/2008 16:53:12 |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 17:48:07 [Permalink]
|
Pelayo said:
| Christians will annoy you, but they will not cut your head off. |
History disagrees with you.
We have fought and bled for over 200 years to keep the government of our own country free from religion, and we are losing that fight at the moment.
A widely popular candidate this election cycle, Huckabee(who doesn't accept the fact of evolution), has openly declared that he wants to change the constitution to bring it in line with "god's word".
But your post misses the point of this thread. Nader will never be president, and the consequences of his candidacy only help the republican candidate. He can't put his agenda up for consideration, he isn't going to build a political movement by jumping in at the last moment (bypassing the four years of work the other serious candidates have put in).
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 17:52:38 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Pelayo
A snippet from King Ralph by Kaplan: "the illegal occupation of Palestine,"
We are in a struggle for our civilization against Muslim jihadists. Nader blames all the problems in the Middle East on American foreign policy; we do not need this attitude in the White House. If you all think fundamentalist Christians are a problem, start reading websites like the "Religion of Peace." Christians will annoy you, but they will not cut your head off.
|
Could we have a source where we could learn more about how Nader "blames all the problems in the Middle East on American foreign policy," please? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 18:02:51 [Permalink]
|
As much as Gorgo pisses me off... I have to join him in asking for a source on that.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 18:47:41 [Permalink]
|
Sources, I had no idea I was joining a research think tank.
Naders assertion that US foreigh policy is to blame for Middle East problems was something I heard him say on a Sunday morning talk show sevaral years ago. In that piece, he linked our support of Israel to problems with the other Middle East countries.
Here he lambasts Bush for allowing Israel to invade Lebanon:
http://www.arabamericannews.com/newsarticle.php?articleid=6107
LGF has a short piece about Nader claiming that Israel is the puppeteer for US foreign policy:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=11555 |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 20:26:44 [Permalink]
|
Well, when you make a sweeping statement like "Nader blames all the problems in the Middle East on American foreign policy", you are going to have to back it up.
It is exactly this kind of misrepresentation that clouds honest debate about political issues and politicians.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 21:34:02 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Pelayo
Sources, I had no idea I was joining a research think tank.
Naders assertion that US foreigh policy is to blame for Middle East problems was something I heard him say on a Sunday morning talk show sevaral years ago. In that piece, he linked our support of Israel to problems with the other Middle East countries.
Here he lambasts Bush for allowing Israel to invade Lebanon:
http://www.arabamericannews.com/newsarticle.php?articleid=6107
LGF has a short piece about Nader claiming that Israel is the puppeteer for US foreign policy:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=11555
|
All this seems different than saying Nader "blames all the problems in the Middle East on American foreign policy," wouldn't you say? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 23:02:01 [Permalink]
|
Well, I regret that I can't find a tape of a Nader appearence on TV from the mid-nineties. I have been duly chastized, and I will agree that I did make a statement that we can catalog as hearsay.
From this page http://www.democracynow.org/2007/7/9/ralph_nader_on_the_candidates_corporate about 2/3 of the way down we find this:
"You pursue a policy against terrorists with state terrorism. You pursue a policy against terrorists and expand the number of terrorists. I mean, this should be a concept that could be easily enveloped by the limited mind of George W. Bush."
I also believe that Nader is suscebtible to believing in conspiracies. |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
|
|
|
Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 23:13:14 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dude
Pelayo said:
| Christians will annoy you, but they will not cut your head off. |
History disagrees with you.
We have fought and bled for over 200 years to keep the government of our own country free from religion, and we are losing that fight at the moment.
|
When is the last time Christians killed 3000 people in one day and used Biblical texts to justify the deed?
It's one thing to be an atheist and a skeptic; it is another thing to allow one's dislike of Christians to cloud their world view. Christians are not the real problem right now.
|
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 23:49:55 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Pelayo
Christians are not the real problem right now. |
Depends what you consider the "real" threat to be. What's more likely to directly impact the average citizen? Christians who use the fear of an Islamic terrorist attack to seize political power, pass draconian laws, take away the rights of citizens, and disenfranchise anyone who doesn't share their religious faith--or an actual terrorist attack?
We here are not blind to the very real threat that radical Islamic terrorists pose. However, even so, I think considering them the only "real" threat to be concerned with is extremely naive. Right now, it is extremist Christian elements which pose the greatest threat to the continued character of my nation.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
 |
|
Ralph Nader...
Official Warning