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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 02/28/2008 : 14:08:45 [Permalink]
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| The cells of the skin contain water, even "dry" skin, and there's water in the air constantly bouncing off the skin. Water is so ubiquitous that it's impossible to not be having water making skin contact in some way or another all the time. |
My wife is allergic to sun light. That does not mean that when the sun touches her skin she has a reaction there is a threshold at which time she develops a rash. The doctors have confirmed she has an allergic reaction to the sun. I accused her of have a psychosomatic reaction until this was confirmed. She can even get tanned if she is careful, but once she has the onset of the rash, direct sunlight is will make it much worse to the point that she can become physically sick.
So the point is with many allergies there is a threshold. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 14:23:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I know that. But is something discounted as an allergy if the reaction requires a certain quantity of the allergen to come into contact with a certain part of the body in a certain way? This woman has this reaction when she sweats. Obviously the sweat contains the allergen, whether it is H2O or some additive. The reaction doesn't happen just because the allergen is in her body. It requires that the allergen be in contact with her skin in a certain quantity. So I fail to see how her having water in her skin cells makes it impossible for her to have an allergy to more excess amounts of water being on her skin. |
Okay.
An allergic reaction occurs when cells in the body present ligands to the immune system, like a person running out the door of their house to flag down a passing cop. Once an immune cell sees the ligand, it starts spitting out hormones to attract more immune cells, and they all go to work repelling whatever they think it is that's invading the system. Works great when the invaders are a few bacteria, as the white cells can actually dismantle those and so the reaction is self-limiting and we don't talk about being "allegic" to E. coli. But when the "invaders" are ingested/inhaled proteins - like from shellfish, ragweed or cat dander - the reaction can go out of control because the immune cells may not be able to break the individual proteins down.
Now, the outermost layers of skin are not only dead - and so don't present ligands - but together they create a water barrier. There is water left inside the dead cells, but water can't pass from one side of the layers of cells to the other. There are no immune-system components in the outermost skin layers, either. Besides which, living cells which can present ligands on their surfaces are chock-full of water and have water all around them. They don't actually sense their own water content, because "alarm bells" would be going off all the time. Processes which depend upon a certain water content would actually detect something like the percentage of salt within the water in the cells. It's possible that if that were to drop (because of an increase in water flowing into the cell through its pores) a cell could call for help, but we're talking about cells on the wrong side of the barrier, now.
We're also talking about a near-instant reaction which not only induces rashes but extraordinarily painful itching. Whatever is causing this is real close to the bloodstream. Contact dermatitis - due to, say, the nickel in jewelry - isn't quick-onset so far as I know, but takes many minutes or hours.
So it's probably not simply contact, and it's probably not even really the skin. It's gotta be something in her hair follicles, which are also going to be quite wet, so it's gotta be something in the water. In her own sweat, her boyfriend's sweat, her tap water, swimming pool water and rain water. But the reaction doesn't happen everywhere, because a person's palms and soles sweat constantly... but there aren't hair follicles there, are there?
This is a real puzzle.
I wonder if she gets the same reaction if she licks her arm... |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 14:24:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
This woman has this reaction when she sweats. |
Sweat contains salt. Salt made up of sodium and chloride.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 14:32:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
So the point is with many allergies there is a threshold. |
I'd lay odds that your wife's reaction to sunlight begins instantly upon exposure, and it just takes time for her skin to recruit enough immune cells to cause a visible rash. I mean, the redness itself is due to immune cells pumping out vasodilators so that the capillaries expand and more immune cells can get to the site.
Not all allegeric reactions are equally strong among all people. Some people who are allegic to it can accidentally eat peanut butter and get a couple red splotches, others can just touch peanut butter and require an epinephrine rescue and possible intubation. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 17:18:01 [Permalink]
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Also, if she were allergic to water, why aren't her mucus membranes, lungs, and mouth constantly effected?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
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The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 17:32:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Also, if she were allergic to water, why aren't her mucus membranes, lungs, and mouth constantly effected? |
What could she drink that didn't contain mostly water?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 17:43:26 [Permalink]
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I tend to think of this as nonsense, too. I have several speculations, some of which may contradict the others:
1. She has no allergy. It's a case that the Daily Mail hoaxed, as an excuse to show a lot of skin of a pretty nineteen-year-old. (Thank you, Daily Mail.)
2. She has a nickel allergy, set off by the nickel content of her belly-button piercing. Water may or may not intensify this reaction.
3. The quoted doctor sounded like someone who was unsure if his subject, and was being vague and trying hard not to misspeak, particularly as to whether this water allergy is a legitimate, medically recognized condition. Obviously, some doctor or doctors have described it as such. The quoted doctor may be doubtful, but simply knows too little to make a commitment, especially one that contradicts the condition's "discoverer."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/28/2008 18:05:45 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 17:44:28 [Permalink]
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Dude wrote: | Also, if she were allergic to water, why aren't her mucus membranes, lungs, and mouth constantly effected? |
Because the reaction is with her skin.
Hey, should one of the moderators move this to the Skepticism/Health folder? I didn't put it there originally 'cause I didn't think it would spark so much skepticism. Silly of me in retrospect. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 17:45:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Dude wrote: | Also, if she were allergic to water, why aren't her mucus membranes, lungs, and mouth constantly effected? |
Because the reaction is with her skin.
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Um, the inside of your mouth is skin.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 18:25:42 [Permalink]
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| Um, the inside of your mouth is skin. |
touché. But lungs aren't. I meant to point out that these are different body parts, and depending on the details of what is reacting to what, there is no reason to assume that the inside of her mouth, lungs, and mucus membranes would react just because the skin on the outside of her body is reacting. For instance, the skin on peoples' faces often reacts differently than skin elsewhere on the body. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 18:26:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dude
Also, if she were allergic to water, why aren't her mucus membranes, lungs, and mouth constantly effected? |
What could she drink that didn't contain mostly water?
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Everclear? |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 19:01:21 [Permalink]
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She needs to try homeopathic water, with a solution that has such a small amount of H2O that there is no significant chance that even a single molecule will be in the water she bathes in. If she tries this, The Mail will be there with photos.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 19:11:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
She needs to try homeopathic water, with a solution that has such a small amount of H2O that there is no significant chance that even a single molecule will be in the water she bathes in. If she tries this, The Mail will be there with photos. |
Yeah, because she'll be dead! Geez, homeopathic water that dilute would be like taking a million showers! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 21:17:50 [Permalink]
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I discovered that I was allergic to water the day I discovered alcohol - I was about five, if I remember right. Since that happy childhood epiphany, I have made it a firm rule to never drink water!
Wiki thinks it's a real medical condition!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 21:47:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
...I have made it a firm rule to never drink water! |
Besides, fish have sex in it. Uck!| Wiki thinks it's a real medical condition! |
It is a real medical condition. The question is whether or not it's specifically the water that's causing the reaction. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Allergy to Water
