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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2008 : 11:51:45 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by marfknox |
| Edited to add: Nevermind that both straight and gay people have been open-mouth kissing for all of recorded history and that some animals engage in the same act. It's still unnatural!!! |
And never mind the fact that ripping, tearing, and bleeding are all associated with forced anal sex penetration and have nothing to do at all with freedom (French) kissing. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9691 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 11:58:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by emsby |
| First of all, your link does nothing to support your position. |
Sure it does. Your claim was that teens who took virginity pledges was strictly a Christian phenomena, which I challenged. The piece clearly shows this is not strictly a Christian phenomena. Which was your claim. |
...and Emsby amended her position when you pointed out "strictly". I think it's rather silly of you make this remark, partly because you ought to have known what she meant, and secondly, she already made amends.
While writing "strictly" was hasty, but you're an idiot if you deny that an overwhelming majority of the virgin-pledgers are Christians.
So the reality of the situation is that we have a whole genration of kids, Christian and non-Christian, who have parents who do not talk about sex with them but rather leave that up to Hollywood and the government. And the results of this are what they are.
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Now who's making vacuous claims? (emphasis mine) 
If you want to play the word games...  |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:15:36 [Permalink]
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Bill wrote: LOL!!!!! Rossie O'Donell and the Mexicans that lust for her. LOL!!!!!! I needed that one today. Thanks Dave!
OK Dave, you start a men's mag featuring Rosie O'Donnell type cover girls and I'll start mine with Cindy Crawford type cover girls and may the best mag win. Next time your in your local grocery store take a look at what mags dominate the racks and it will soon be clear who's mag, between Dave and I, will be picked up. |
Geez, Bill, how much can you revel in your own limited assumptions, waiting to be proven ignorant? There are magazines, movies, and whole websites devoted to the “chubby chaser” audience. As Dave mentioned, you can easily find them yourself to see proof.
This may shock you, but beauty standards vary by culture and even subculture. For instance, on surveys, black men have rather different physical qualities they look for in women than white men. The runway models of modern times would be considered less than ideally attractive in most human cultures. Most tribal cultures regard heavy women as sexually more attractive. This makes sense since such populations are at risk of starvation in lean times. Being fat was sign of prosperity and high social rank. More recently, cultures which have stable food sources and problems with obesity tend to have skinny beauty ideals.
Check it out: http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/2007/11/26/mauritania_where_fat_is_desirable.php
| Girls as young as 5 and as old as 19 had to drink up to five gallons of fat-rich camel's or cow's milk daily, aiming for silvery stretch marks on their upper arms. If a girl refused or vomited, the village weight-gain specialist might squeeze her foot between sticks, pull her ear, pinch her inner thigh, bend her finger backward or force her to drink her own vomit. |
Your preference for thin over fat as a general rule for female beauty is a result of cultural conditioning. Imagine how much of your sexual preferences are such!
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:18:55 [Permalink]
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| The whole anal sex discussion is rather irrelevant to the original discussion (any why conservative Christians-- who profess to abhor anal sex so much constantly bring it up is curious). Since it's likely that most men aren't interested in seeing men perform oral sex on each other, but wouldn't object to seeing women do it and-- presumably-- are happy to give and receive in heterosexual relationships. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:20:14 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse |
| ...and Emsby amended her position when you pointed out "strictly". |
Or as many on this forum like to say, "moved the goal posts."
| I think it's rather silly of you make this remark, partly because you ought to have known what she meant, |
But she even italicized strictly, the first time she wrote it!
| Surely you're not serious? Are you suggesting that non-Evangelical Christians go around making virginity pledges in the US? Please tell me you're not seriuos. It is a strictly born-again Christian phenomenon. |
| and secondly, she already made amends. |
If she did not highlight "strictly" in her first post then I could maybe buy your argument. But what she did was clearly move the goal posts.
| While writing "strictly" was hasty, but you're an idiot if you deny that an overwhelming majority of the virgin-pledgers are Christians. |
I never did deny it. I simply pointed out that her claim of "strictly only Christians" and H.H.'s claim that "only Christian kids grow up ignorant of sex and then have ignorant and unsafe as teens" was hard evidence of their obvious bigoted and ignorant feelings toward Christianity |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:21:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And never mind the fact that ripping, tearing, and bleeding are all associated with forced anal sex penetration and have nothing to do at all with freedom (French) kissing.
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Forced vaginal sex penetration results in the same. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:26:55 [Permalink]
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Bill, your ability to only see information which seems to support your point of view is baffling.
| Hmm, only 9% of unmarried males have even tried it. |
That was the lowest statistic out of a huge list!
| So most must find it repulsive, even when married. |
You just assumed that people who haven't tried it find it repulsive. That is a huge assumption. Plenty of people never try it because they never happen to be with a partner who also wants to try it. Sorry to get graphic, but couples where the man has a very large member might not do it because it would hurt too much. In societies where it is taboo, both partners could potentially be a little curious, but never bring it up for fear of disgusting the other person. You don't know why the others haven't tried it.
| only 25% who have even tried it? |
That is a quarter! That is a huge statistic! You are trying to say this practice is unnatural, but at least 10% of the population has tried it! That makes it pretty common.
| Again, I would expect the college survey to be higher then a national average just as I would playboy. Those crazy college kids trying to find themselves and all. |
If you tried in college, then even if you settle down immediately after college and live a very conservative lifestyle, you would still, 50 years later, put down on a survey that you had tried it. So saying that college students are more likely to try it would also extend to anyone with a college education.
| If 72 and 25% tried anal sex and only 23 and 8% report regular practice then 2 of every 3 who tried anal sex choose to not engage in it anymore after their experience. |
That doesn't mean they are disgusted by it. There are many sexual practices which are done by people when they are young or in a newer relationship, and then once they settle down into a monogamous relationship, they stick to certain practices that they like best.
| Which means that roughly 10-15 % of todays hetro population from ages 15-44 engages in anal sex on some kind of regular basis. |
Take a walk in a crowded mall and think about this statistic, Bill. 10-15% is huge. Less of a percentage of Caucasian people are redheads. Around 5% of people are homosexual. 4% of Americans are Jewish. 10-15% of a population is rather significant.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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emsby
Skeptic Friend
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:35:31 [Permalink]
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| Or as many on this forum like to say, "moved the goal posts." |
I most certainly did not move the goal posts. What I originally said was that the virginity pledge concept is a strictly born-again Christian phenomenon. And it is. You have been shown this. Every group that advocates this behavior is an Evangelical Christian group. So... it is a strictly Evangelical Christian phenomenon. I'm still waiting for you to show me how many non-Christian teens make abstinence pledges. The evidence we've seen so far suggests that this whole thing is religious in nature, despite the fact that these people are pushing for it to leak into public schools. There may be non-Christian children taking this pledge, but you've yet to show me that. Where are they? How many of them are there? What percentage of the children that take this religiously themed pledge are Jewish? Or atheist?
| If she did not highlight "strictly" in her first post then I could maybe buy your argument. But what she did was clearly move the goal posts. |
Again... if I spoke hyperbolically and this is too much for you to handle I apologize. My position is this... the Abstinence Pledge movement is STRICTLY an Evangelical Christian movement and traditionally, the vast majority of the children who've taken these pledges are Evangelical Christians. Therefore, H.H.'s claim that that the Christian children who take these pledges are more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior stands. You have yet to show us otherwise.
| Your claim was that zero % of the children taking these pledges were non-Christian. The piece makes it quite clear that you were mistaken. If one non-Christian kid took a pledge then your claim is false. |
Again, no. My claim was that this movement is strictly Christian in nature. There may very well be non-Christian children taking abstinence pledges, and I may have worded my statement wrong. However, I'm still waiting for you to show me how many non-Christian children take them. I'd also like to know what reason these children would have to take the pledge... who are they pledging to?
| I never did deny it. I simply pointed out that her claim of "strictly only Christians" and H.H.'s claim that "only Christian kids grow up ignorant of sex and then have ignorant and unsafe as teens" was hard evidence of their obvious bigoted and ignorant feelings toward Christianity |
I never, ever said "strictly only Christians." I said it is strictly a Christian phenomenon. I'm sorry you are unable to see the difference. |
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, I. |
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emsby
Skeptic Friend
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:43:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
You just assumed that people who haven't tried it find it repulsive. That is a huge assumption. Plenty of people never try it because they never happen to be with a partner who also wants to try it. Sorry to get graphic, but couples where the man has a very large member might not do it because it would hurt too much. In societies where it is taboo, both partners could potentially be a little curious, but never bring it up for fear of disgusting the other person. You don't know why the others haven't tried it.
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I realize this is anecdotal, but I just thought I'd throw in my two cents here. I've never met a (EDIT: straight) man who was replused by the thought of anal sex with a woman. Never. I'm not saying they don't exist (I know how this type of talk confuses you Bill)... just that I've never met one. |
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, I. |
| Edited by - emsby on 03/05/2008 12:54:36 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:44:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And never mind the fact that ripping, tearing, and bleeding are all associated with forced anal sex penetration and have nothing to do at all with freedom (French) kissing. |
Good idea, Bill: compare consensual sex with rape. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:45:04 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by marfknox |
Bill wrote:
Geez, Bill, how much can you revel in your own limited assumptions, waiting to be proven ignorant? There are magazines, movies, and whole websites devoted to the “chubby chaser” audience. As Dave mentioned, you can easily find them yourself to see proof. |
Geez, OK last time. I NEVER SAID THERE IS NO AUDIENCE FOR "CHUBBY CHASER"!!!!!!!! I said that this audience was in the minority and that is why SI never puts fat women on the swimsuit cover. MOST, but not ALL, guys do not want to see the fat women but rather the, well, the swimsuit models that we see. Yes, some backwoods website might come in and go for the minority of guys who want to see fat women to try and make a buck. But SI is going for the mainstream male and they have concluded that fat girls ain't going to get it done for them.
| Take a walk in a crowded mall and think about this statistic, Bill. 10-15% is huge. |
I don't find that number huge. That means 1 of every 10 people who are sexually active engage in anal sex. That's 90% who do not! Now that's a huge number. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:47:13 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by pleco |
| Forced vaginal sex penetration results in the same. |
When the female is being forced into unwanted penetration, then yes, it can.
But forced penetration is required in all anal sex encounters. Again, this was never intended to fit into that. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 12:59:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
I don't find that number huge. That means 1 of every 10 people who are sexually active engage in anal sex. |
It also means there are about twice as many people who've engaged in anal sex as there are Evangelical Christians in the US. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 13:01:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
But forced penetration is required in all anal sex encounters. |
You really don't know much about the subject, do you? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 13:13:29 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by emsby |
| Or as many on this forum like to say, "moved the goal posts." |
I most certainly did not move the goal posts. What I originally said was that the virginity pledge concept is a strictly born-again Christian phenomenon. And it is. You have been shown this. Every group that advocates this behavior is an Evangelical Christian group. So... it is a strictly Evangelical Christian phenomenon. |
Maybe I did misunderstand. I thought you were saying that strictly only Christian kids have ever taken a virginity pledge. I apologize for the confusion.
| I'm still waiting for you to show me how many non-Christian teens make abstinence pledges. |
Why? The only claim that I made was that it was a number higher then zero.
| Therefore, H.H.'s claim that that the Christian children who take these pledges are more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior stands. |
How so? HH's link only looked at the risky behavior of kids that took the pledge and it did not break it down to Christian kids who took the pledge vs non-Christian kids who took the pledge. So your just assuming that the Christian kids who took the pledge were more likely to engage in risky behavior over the non-Christian kids who took the pledge.
| Again, no. My claim was that this movement is strictly Christian in nature. There may very well be non-Christian children taking abstinence pledges, and I may have worded my statement wrong. However, I'm still waiting for you to show me how many non-Christian children take them. |
Why? The only claim that I made was that it was a number higher then zero.
| I'd also like to know what reason these children would have to take the pledge... |
According to the peice to avoid teen pregnacey, STD's etc...
| who are they pledging to? |
Mostly to their future spouse was what I gathered.
| I realize this is anecdotal, but I just thought I'd throw in my two cents here. I've never met a (EDIT: straight) man who was replused by the thought of anal sex with a woman. Never. |
Well I suppose after that many beers they probably would be into just about anything.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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The secrets of men: unbalanced homophobia
